There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.
Questian Telka: Welcome to She Counts the Real Talk podcast for women in Accounting, where your hosts Questian Telka.
Nancy McClelland: And Nancy McClelland.
Questian Telka: And every episode we're digging into the real experiences, challenges, and unspoken truths of life in this profession.
Nancy McClelland: Because if you've ever felt like you're the only one, you're not, and you shouldn't have to figure [00:00:30] it out alone.
Questian Telka: Special thanks to our season two sponsors Forwardly Relay and Clienthub. We are so grateful to them for helping us bring these conversations to life, enabling us to share out loud what everyone's thinking but no one is saying. Learn more about them on our sponsors page at accounts.com.
Nancy McClelland: And if you want to support the podcast, the one thing that would make the biggest impact is to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Reviews [00:01:00] really do help others find us.
Questian Telka: And remember that you can go to earmarked to earn CPE credit. And please follow the She Counts podcast on LinkedIn to join the conversation.
Nancy McClelland: Today is the final episode of season two. Woo woo.
Questian Telka: I can't believe that we're two seasons in.
Nancy McClelland: I can't believe we're doing it. Insanity. Absolute insanity. And by the time our next one airs, we're actually all going to be on post tax season vacation, [00:01:30] and everyone is going to be catching up and binge watching this one. So it seems appropriate to me that it's called ta da celebrate the little things. They're actually big. And we have a very special guest with us, our incredible friend Valerie Heckman, accountant community manager at on Pei. Welcome to She Counts. Valerie.
Valerie Heckman: Thank you so much for having me.
Questian Telka: We saw Valerie's keynote at scaling [00:02:00] new heights not too long ago, and Nancy and I were so deeply moved that we knew that we had to have her on the show to talk about it. Valerie is really passionate about empowering great client experiences and celebrating wins, and she's also one of our top sisters board certified through the Theater of Public Speaking, which we have talked a lot about, um, on key counts.
Nancy McClelland: We love launching each episode with a story and question. [00:02:30] I know you have one to share with us about the inspiration for this topic. As with so many of them, it started with one of our text conversations.
Questian Telka: Yeah. That's right. So, um, you know, speaking of small things, I guess maybe it's a big, it is a big thing and a small thing, but the inspiration came from our text conversation when I was sharing with Nancy that I had finally received my degree, [00:03:00] which took me forever. If anybody has listened to our previous episodes, they've heard the story about the number of times it took me to actually finally graduate, which just happened. Oh my gosh, it's been a couple of years ago now already. But, um, that text conversation we had created this inspiration and, um, what do you think, Nancy? Should we read it to them and kind of like let them in on it? Okay.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah, it's totally, let's just read it out loud. Yeah. Because you had, um, I think you [00:03:30] had gotten your, you had finally gotten your diploma in the mail, right? Was that it? And you framed it.
Questian Telka: Okay, I got it.
Nancy McClelland: You would send me a picture of.
Questian Telka: It and I was I sent you a picture and I was giddy and really excited about it. And, um, and you were telling me congratulations. And I said to you, thank you. Isn't it so pretty in its frame because I framed it? Of course, I know it's not a big deal because everyone has one, but I never thought that I would actually do it.
Nancy McClelland: And I wrote back, [00:04:00] it's actually a really big deal. To say that it's no big deal is silly. It's a big deal because everyone else has one. And you didn't. You know that. And you told me that you knew you didn't need to do it in order to keep doing what you do for a living, but that you wanted it. And now you have it. And it should always be a prized possession.
Questian Telka: And I said, ah, thank you. I'm still in shock that it's real sometimes. I'm still in shock now, and it does have a very [00:04:30] prominent spot on my desk at home.
Nancy McClelland: It was cool because I, I wrote back saying I just showed Mark my husband, and he said, wow, that's huge. Not knowing the rest of our conversation. Right? Like I was saying, it was a really big deal. And he was like, yeah, that's huge. And he didn't just mean the size of the frame. By the way, not everybody frames their diploma. I have never framed one of my diplomas. So I think it's it's a really big deal.
Questian Telka: Yeah, I was excited. And to give backstory about Mark too is, you know, I did contract [00:05:00] work with with you, Nancy. And so I got to know Mark really well. And so when this, when I went to go to school in the first place, Nancy said to me, you don't need to do that. You really don't need to do it. And I was like, no, I have to. I need to do it for myself. And so, you know, you were along for the ride, as was Mark kind of hearing about this process over a year and a half that it took me to finally finish it after my several previous attempts. So, um, yeah, it was, it was really great to have. You [00:05:30] have to celebrate. Yeah. Ta da.
Nancy McClelland: Ta da.
Valerie Heckman: Da. That you got it. And then a little ta da that you framed it and a little ta da that you that you shared it with your friends that were there for the journey. So yeah, tadaa all around.
Nancy McClelland: I mean, I did it. Thank you for that. Ta da segue. Because that's like, that's kind of what you're known for at this point. I mean, I know you. You work at on pay and you, you know, are an amazing, uh, [00:06:00] community member of the community and the accounting world.
Questian Telka: Thank you. Incredible, speaker.
Nancy McClelland: An incredible speaker. But the to do list is kind of it's your calling card now, right? So for someone who's never heard that term before or who has never heard it in this context, what the heck is it and why? Why is this your thing? Why did it resonate with you?
Valerie Heckman: And, you know, I never expected it to really become my thing. Um, but I'll give a little backstory. So, uh, today's list [00:06:30] is something that I actually learned about from one of one of my muses, if you will, uh, a podcast or an author called Gretchen Rubin. She has a podcast called happier with Gretchen Rubin. That's fantastic. And she kind of casually mentioned it on an episode as something that runs alongside your to do list, but is the opposite. It's additive. It captures the things that you got done, and then also anything that comes up in life that has enriched your life that you find worth celebrating [00:07:00] in a small way. Um, so the to do list is capturing the fact that you called back a different difficult client. Um, you know, the one. That you spent time with a friend that you haven't seen in a while, uh, the tadalis nos that you, that you framed that diploma and put it on the wall, but it also can capture those big things like actually graduating. Um, and without getting into too long of a story about it, this was something that came to me at [00:07:30] a time that I feel like I really needed it.
Valerie Heckman: Um, I was in a state of when I look back now realizing it was, I was pretty burnt out, um, and just feeling very unmotivated and feeling like I was on that constant hamster wheel of getting things done, but not necessarily feeling like I accomplished anything. Um, it was also during a time in my life where I felt pretty isolated around the work I was doing. So it wasn't necessarily stopping to celebrate it. I [00:08:00] wasn't sharing it with other people. And I was doing a lot in my day to day life that was worth stopping to appreciate. Uh, and so the Tadalis gets to acknowledge and celebrate these good little moments, right? You finally cleaned out the fridge in time for garbage day. Uh, but also the big things that are like milestones personally or professionally along the way. Um, and so for me, it felt like a very approachable process. [00:08:30] And I'll talk probably a little bit more later on how I go about it. Um, but I think the best way to learn what it is is to actually do one. So if you do.
Nancy McClelland: Homework or yeah.
Valerie Heckman: I mean, like we can take a moment right now. So I'd love for you to and your listeners, uh, to actually do this with me. If you're listening and you're in your car driving or walking the dog or something, like, just think about it, but try and write it down later. Um, but what are three [00:09:00] moments? Tada! Moments. Three things that happened recently or that you got recently? Recently. Yeah. Like in the last maybe, let's say the last week. What are three things that you, um, had happen, personal or professional, but that actually involve you? Not like, oh, my kid did this like something you had happen. Um, that maybe you didn't stop to slow down and appreciate. So I'll give you a moment to do that.
Nancy McClelland: Okay. [00:09:30] The first one was really easy for me to come up with because it happened.
Valerie Heckman: I was going to say usually I would be if I was doing I've done this as a workshop with accountants and I give, you know, everybody the silence. But I know we're on a podcast, so we don't want.
Nancy McClelland: No, I think the silence is the silence is important here.
Questian Telka: Oh my gosh, three things. That's, uh.
Nancy McClelland: I've got the one.
Questian Telka: I know. I'm like, I can come up with one.
Valerie Heckman: And these can be really little things, right?
Nancy McClelland: Right. That's a really good point. [00:10:00]
Valerie Heckman: Did you make it to the airport on time? Question.
Questian Telka: Barely. Barely.
Nancy McClelland: Like really this.
Questian Telka: Time was cutting.
Nancy McClelland: It close because. Oh, yeah. There's one. I found one. I have to look at my calendar because it's kind of my journal for me. I. I don't just put, I mean, I time block. So I put things I expect to do, but then regardless of whether I actually did those things, I write down what I did do.
Valerie Heckman: So you [00:10:30] already have a version of this. And I.
Nancy McClelland: Will say.
Valerie Heckman: You know, it doesn't I don't go back to Dallas. Um, but it is a little bit different than just checking something off. The checking off feels good, but the actual stopping and acknowledging this, whether you do it at the end of a day or at the end of a week or in a, you know, any sort of kind of routine basis. Um, for me, it really started to make a difference. Um.
Questian Telka: It makes sense [00:11:00] because do.
Nancy McClelland: I get to share my.
Questian Telka: Laptop? We really never stop and like, take a moment to like, just relish our accomplishments. It's like we're, we're so fast paced. We're constantly moving on from one thing to the next, right? So it's like, it's really, it makes me realize sitting here trying to actually think about what the three things are like, how.
Nancy McClelland: How rarely you do it.
Questian Telka: To do it.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's you're making the point perfectly. Valerie. And I mean, question [00:11:30] you're illustrating perfectly the point that Valerie is making and which is totally why Valerie the second that, you know, when when question and I had that text thread that we read through earlier, the reason we have a copy of that is that we had already started coming up with ideas for this podcast that maybe someday in the future we might create. And so she put that screenshot on our Google doc and underneath [00:12:00] it on the points I wrote Valerie's Todolist because it reminded me of this exact thing. Okay, so are we sharing these or what.
Valerie Heckman: If you'd like. How about we share one? Like so circle your the one that you're most excited to talk about. And for the listeners, I'll give you the homework of circling that and sharing it with somebody else in your life since you can't share it with them.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, that's perfect. All right. So I don't know which one to circle because I don't know whether I should circle the biggest one. I [00:12:30] actually feel like I should circle the smallest one because because the small things are the big things. And I can't even begin to tell you how much this. Yes, I'm circling the smallest one. Okay, I'll tell you what it is. All right. I repotted, uh, two plants in the garden, and I'm so excited about it because now every time that I come out, instead of it being something where I'm like, oh, I really should do that instead, it's like, oh, those are so pretty.
Valerie Heckman: I love that that's [00:13:00] such a great example because it's something that you did for yourself and you know, yeah, maybe your husband or whoever else is around benefits from it, but it's really a thing that you did. And it's the kind of thing that like can happen anytime. And, and those in some ways are the most important things for us to celebrate because we're like, no, I actually stopped the busyness of life and did something that was for myself and for my own enjoyment. And like that I can appreciate. So I love that as an example, because you got. [00:13:30]
Questian Telka: I. So mine is actually something that is that both Nancy and I accomplished. And it's actually a big thing. And I'm really like, I haven't, we haven't gotten, we haven't shared it yet. So it's like, yeah, she's like, oh.
Nancy McClelland: I suddenly realized what it is you're going to say.
Questian Telka: So we applied for and finally got our trademark for she accounts this week. That's amazing. Yeah. So I should have brought.
Valerie Heckman: Confetti [00:14:00] to this podcast episode to throw. Uh, but seriously, all of the, all of the virtual gold stars, uh, to for that. That's so cool.
Questian Telka: Yeah. I think we were both like, I mean, I always wanted to trademark something. I always wanted to have something that I wanted to trademark and so well.
Nancy McClelland: And it, I mean, the process, we started it last June. So, you know, it's nearly a year, three quarters of a year.
Questian Telka: It takes a long time. So it was like, wow, there's [00:14:30] finally a lot of.
Valerie Heckman: Codas along the way. And I think that that's a big piece of this, right, is like not just celebrating the finish line. It is of course, absolutely like celebrating the finish line is a huge thing. But celebrating like, oh, yeah, we had to apply for this. We had to respond to questions. We had to do all these pieces to make it happen. Um, and one of the things for me with starting to do this as a practice, so the way I do it is I have a, um, in my planner, I have [00:15:00] a side that is my to do list. And then yeah, I have to do items and appointments and like all those things in my other tools and you know, your trackers, sometimes people get a little confused. They think I'm saying like, don't keep a to do list. Like, no, no, you still need to do lists and practice.
Questian Telka: Managing all those.
Nancy McClelland: Um, but.
Questian Telka: Can.
Valerie Heckman: You have something that's kind of just for, for you where you capture some of those moments? And then probably the biggest thing, um, that I've kind of learned [00:15:30] from doing this and talking about it with other people is finding the ways to, uh, share it with others and not just quickly move on to the next thing going on in our lives.
Questian Telka: Such a like positive, you know, positive thing. And like you said, to not prevents you from just going on to the next thing to like sit with it. Right. I want to ask you, before you discovered the to do list, how were you measuring [00:16:00] a good day and why wasn't that working anymore? You know, and what was, I guess the, the catalyst for saying, okay, I'm going to come up with this or yeah.
Valerie Heckman: Try out this practice. Yeah. Um, so I found that when this idea kind of came to me and why it was like, oh, this, this is such a simple thing, but I think it could have a big impact. And then, you know, I kind of just heard about it mentioned in passing, but I started doing [00:16:30] some research into why this actually works. And there's a lot of, you know, scientific pieces behind why something like this can be helpful. Um, but yeah, before I started doing this, I was measuring good days by those like, things that got checked off the list, right? It was all about outputs. It was all about the checked boxes. A lot of the times I wasn't even like acknowledging a good day. I was just like waiting until that finish line moment [00:17:00] I was just talking about, right? Like it's not.
Nancy McClelland: Well, yeah.
Valerie Heckman: Celebrating until it's over and it's huge.
Nancy McClelland: And you mentioned I, I actually wrote this down when you mentioned it because you said you were going through a period of burnout where you felt like you were, you were busy and you were doing things all the time, but you didn't feel like you were accomplishing anything. And when Lynette came on the show, Lynette O'Connell to talk about burnout, she, she gave us a list of things that are indicators that you're going through it. And one of the biggest ones [00:17:30] was that sense that you've never accomplished anything. And so, you know, measuring it. And I will give.
Questian Telka: The disclaimer.
Valerie Heckman: And I give this when I've, when I've done this as a workshop of like, this is not a cure for burnout. And I, I don't, you know, want to sound like a Pollyanna of like, oh, we are just fine if we just focus on the good things and ignore the bad, like absolutely not. Right. But it can be a tool in your toolbox. Noah. To purposefully put time in the day to look at, at what's going [00:18:00] on. So I, um, I would do this thing where I would like, write down everything I needed to do in a day on post-its and put them on the wall and like, tear them down as I was getting things done. But of course, that's.
Nancy McClelland: Kind.
Valerie Heckman: Of cool. Every day I'd have, I'd have like the wall of post-its and I'd be adding more to it. And so, you know, yeah, I had kind of like the physical crumped up, crumpled up or I'd have like, you know, things checked off on a list. Um, but I, I wasn't celebrating, I wasn't, I was [00:18:30] just kind of mentally moving on to the next thing. Um, and it was difficult for me to like, acknowledge what, wasn't necessarily a to do item, but was a really good thing that happened that day, right? To my, my rituals gave me space to celebrate that like, okay, yeah, maybe I have unread.
Nancy McClelland: Those post-it notes are still on the wall.
Valerie Heckman: Got like, I've got unfinished tasks but I [00:19:00] had a really meaningful, you know, side conversation with one of my colleagues or I, you know.
Questian Telka: I haven't.
Nancy McClelland: Seen in a while or.
Valerie Heckman: Yeah, like there's so many things that you can say, well, okay, maybe I, I didn't, these things didn't happen, but that doesn't mean that the day was a loss.
Nancy McClelland: Why? You know, why do you think I don't, I don't know if you can answer this question for all women, but but try what? Why? Why did you and why do so many women in [00:19:30] accounting struggle to give themselves credit for the work they're doing? Why do. Why do we only look at it as the crossing things off the list or the checking the boxes and we're not doing the additive.
Valerie Heckman: Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: Look what I accomplished.
Valerie Heckman: Yeah. And I've been thinking about this a lot, especially. So you mentioned the keynote I gave. This was actually just one line of that keynote. And believe it or not, it was like the biggest takeaway. Um, yeah, I gave, I gave a keynote [00:20:00] on prioritizing enthusiasm. And this was like one of the things, um, and, uh, when, when it became the thing that people were talking to me about the most and wanting to learn about. And when I got asked to, can you teach this as a workshop? Can you come to our firm and talk about this with our, with our team? Like.
Nancy McClelland: I'm just.
Questian Telka: So.
Valerie Heckman: Cool. This is.
Questian Telka: Yeah.
Valerie Heckman: So I mean, like, first of all, like I like sobbed. I'm like, what do you want me to come and talk about this? Like that's amazing. Um, and also it was like, well, why is [00:20:30] this a thing that's resonating so much? And when I think about it, I, you know, I've worked with accountants and bookkeepers for the last almost 15 years of my career, I. Y'all are stuck with me.
Questian Telka: I love accountants.
Valerie Heckman: And bookkeepers and advisors. You're my people very much and.
Questian Telka: I'm so.
Nancy McClelland: Grateful to have you. You may you may play an accountant on on TV or whatever, like I, I know you're not an accountant, but you're an honorary accountant for sure.
Valerie Heckman: Thank you. Well, thank you. And I [00:21:00] count myself very, very lucky to, to, to be partnered with such amazing people. And when I look at the profession and I look at the amazing things about accounting professionals, and then some of the things that that I often see people struggle with, it's very high internal standards, right? Um, which makes sense, right? You all get things done. The goal is getting things done, getting things done right, solving big problems, staying on top of deadlines, keeping [00:21:30] everything in order. Like that's what, that's what you do. Uh, but I think that that can also come with a lot of focus on what's left undone. It can come up with like your brain is always managing, like, okay, we got this thing done, but now we got to do this like, okay, this is reconciled and now we've got to do that. Like, okay, you know, these things kind of, um, uh, like the, the whole.
Nancy McClelland: It's true. I mean, you just described my brain when I go to bed at night, I don't go, oh, look at everything [00:22:00] I did today. I go to bed at night and I think, oh, my God, I didn't get this, that and the other done today. Look what tomorrow's going to look like for me. Like, no wonder I have trouble sleeping.
Questian Telka: Right.
Valerie Heckman: Oh you should absolutely try it before bed because it is. I will closing a book on the day like I tend to do it at the end of the workday. But yeah, when my brain is spinning, I have to ground myself.
Questian Telka: Oh, that's really.
Valerie Heckman: What actually took place. And what did get out. And I, [00:22:30] when I was in like the worst of my overwhelm, I found that I would forget what I even got done. I would think that I didn't do things that I did do.
Questian Telka: Because.
Valerie Heckman: Green was just so bombarded with all these concurrent activities. Um, um, and I started like really feeling like there's, there's so much that I'm just kind of missing here because of it. Um, the other thing, especially with women, I think [00:23:00] that I connect with in the accounting community is there's a, a mindset. And I think you two probably have it. Let me know if this resonates at all of you. You're like, oh, well, this is just what I do. I'm here to help. I'm accommodating. It was nothing.
Questian Telka: We've talked.
Nancy McClelland: About that so many.
Questian Telka: Times.
Valerie Heckman: Very self-effacing, which I love. Like, there's nothing wrong with being humble, right? But to just pass it off like, oh, it's nothing. It's just the job.
Nancy McClelland: No, it's not nothing. You're right. And and I [00:23:30] think that you can be, you can absolutely be humble without saying it was nothing. For example, you can you can say, I'm thinking about what happened last night, literally last night. So we're using new tech software this season for the. I've switched for the first time in 24 years. Okay. And so it's yeah, it's a big deal.
Nancy McClelland: Ta da!
Nancy McClelland: I didn't even put that on my list because it doesn't feel like an accomplishment because I'm drowning. It's so hard. And a friend of mine who's [00:24:00] on tax counsel and uses Proconnect. I was whatsapping with her and I was like, this sounds so crazy and I'm so embarrassed, but can you hold my hand through this first review that I'm doing? Because I'm really struggling and I'm just so nervous. And she was very it was a huge help. Like it got me completely unstuck. It was absolutely. I don't know how I'd be feeling today or how I would have slept last night if she hadn't gotten on a call last night on Zoom for like two hours, right? It was [00:24:30] amazing. And she was very. It's nothing, it's nothing, it's nothing. And I'm like, no, it is something. And so I think that you can be humble and also celebrate it to be like, oh yeah, it is something. I'm glad it helped you.
Questian Telka: Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: Or, you know, like there are different ways to reframe the same exact you can be human, you can be humble, you know, you can act with humility and be proud of yourself or recognize that it made an impact.
Questian Telka: It's so important to do that too, because I think we are trained as women from, [00:25:00] from early childhood to like to be overly humble, right? And it's like humility is important. And I think we want that, but we also need to be proud of the fact that we have helped someone or proud of the fact that we've, you know, accomplished something ourselves as well and not so easily overlook them, overlook those things. And it's really easy to get in a pattern and to have it a habit of doing so.
Valerie Heckman: Yeah. And when we, when we actually stop to acknowledge it. So when [00:25:30] I started looking into all the science behind it, those patterns, they tend to put us in this spot where we're only focusing on what's undone. We're only focusing on the negative. We get very critical of ourselves. We start comparing ourselves to others. We start doubting ourselves, thinking that we can't do it. And for me, this is an activity that, you know, in some ways sounds silly on the surface. But when you think about it like, no, this is a time for me to say, actually, you [00:26:00] are making progress. Actually, you are, um, doing things that lead to a bigger life and you're capable. I can look back at the to do list and be like, on a bad day. I'm I've been there before. I've done this before. I am capable, right? Like you.
Nancy McClelland: Okay. Yeah.
Valerie Heckman: We got a tax return done in this software that.
Nancy McClelland: It didn't even occur to me so you're not just making this list before you go to bed. You're going back and looking at these lists when you're having a bad day.
Valerie Heckman: I [00:26:30] have. Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, I love that. Oh, my God, I just I adore you.
Questian Telka: Oh my goodness. I just love that you.
Nancy McClelland: I'm with, I'm with question. And you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to say Katie Healy's name out loud right now because she's the person who helped me last night. And I just realized if I say her name out loud here and say, thank you, Katie, maybe she will hear this episode because I know she's one of our listeners and she'll be like, I'm putting that on my to do list. That would be awesome.
Valerie Heckman: Should [00:27:00] as.
Nancy McClelland: She should.
Valerie Heckman: And, um, you know, I think another thing that happens, I mentioned before that sharing this with others, like you can totally keep this to yourself. But I do think finding ways to work this into the rest of your life is big. I've talked about this with a lot of accountants and, and I'll mention she might be a listener, I don't know. An accountant named Nancy Jacobson came up to me at an event and said, I started doing this with my son at dinner [00:27:30] time. I asked my son about his day and like what is Tada? Moments are. And then I share mine and we talk about it as a family and it's grown as closer and like, here I am like crying, right? Like just telling.
Questian Telka: You.
Valerie Heckman: It's so beautiful. Oh my God.
Nancy McClelland: But then that probably went on your to do list.
Valerie Heckman: Oh yeah. Absolutely.
Nancy McClelland: Right.
Valerie Heckman: Um, but.
Questian Telka: But it spreads like you're, you're, if you start doing it and then you're sharing it with other people, then they start doing it. And it's like you said, you were saying, [00:28:00] I mean, I don't think it's a small thing, but it does. Like, I know what you're saying. It's like until I've never thought of it before, until you had kind of like, you know, shared that and, and I heard you talking about it, but it's like sometimes the things that are in our mind seem like, it's like, it seems like it might be obvious or some of the most, you know, um, remarkable and insightful. Yeah. Things that we can do. So yeah, it has.
Valerie Heckman: It's had a big, big impact. And, um, one [00:28:30] thing that I've, uh, done and I've seen other people do this and they don't call it a. So again, you don't have to call it a tadalis, but like you have a meeting with your team or you meet with a client, like, how can we ground ourselves in some good stuff before we start talking about what we need to get done? You know, like.
Nancy McClelland: I am writing this down right now. I'm going to email my whole team email team and then, um, everyone add one to the yeah. [00:29:00]
Valerie Heckman: One. Like, what's one thing that happened in the last week that you're feeling good about? And it doesn't, again, have to be a big thing because the little things are totally the big things. Uh, and I think that, yeah, one of, one of the groups that I met with and chatted about this with was like, oh, yeah, we totally just get on our calls and start talking about all this stuff that we have to do. And everyone's already feeling overwhelmed when they get on there. But if we took just that second, or you're meeting with a client just that moment of like, okay, [00:29:30] what's good with you?
Questian Telka: That's good. Share your win.
Valerie Heckman: And that's one of the ways that putting this into practice has, um, I've found that, you know, I didn't necessarily want to be the person that's like, look at me and all these big wins I'm having. Like, I want to ask other people about theirs. And then I share mine. And I, I find that women sometimes have this in their head of like, well, nobody cares. Or like my, my team doesn't want to hear about that or my friends don't want to hear about that. I'm like, if your friends don't want to hear about good [00:30:00] stuff that happened in your life, come sit with us.
Questian Telka: Yeah. Find new friends. Find new friends. Right? Um, you know, once you started doing this consistently. I want to know what changed. Like, not just in your work, but how did you feel when you were at the end of the day? Because you said you kind of you like to do this at the end of the day? Yeah. What shifted for you?
Valerie Heckman: Yeah. You know, I and I've talked about a couple of these [00:30:30] things already. So like I was feeling more grounded. I was feeling more capable. Um, more, more gratitude too, right? Like you kind of have those moments where like, oh, I'm really grateful that this took place or that I got this done or that I, you know, had had that moment in my life. Um, I did start to feel like I was capturing more of the effort that went into things rather than just, oh, I'm going to wait until every step of this is done to celebrate it. Like, no, [00:31:00] like let's like, look at the mile markers along the way. And probably the most interesting thing, and this maybe has something to do with me being able to relate to accountants is I was like, I've got a lot of data here.
Nancy McClelland: I've got.
Valerie Heckman: Good data.
Nancy McClelland: So accountant.
Valerie Heckman: I know, I know I've.
Nancy McClelland: Got great.
Valerie Heckman: I've got great data and I have some not so good data, because I also started to recognize the types of things that were not on my to [00:31:30] do list that I wanted.
Nancy McClelland: How do you see the things that aren't on the list? Well, just.
Valerie Heckman: From reviewing it and like thinking through like, okay.
Questian Telka: What can you share?
Valerie Heckman: Yeah. So, you know, if I had some, a lot of times for me, it's stuff that is for myself and more like personal goals than professional. And I think that that's something a lot of a lot of women, a lot of accountants can relate to, of like, I'm going to get everything done for the clients, I'm going to get everything done.
Nancy McClelland: For.
Valerie Heckman: My boss. I'm going to get everything done for my family, [00:32:00] my children, whatever, and not necessarily do the things for me. And so that was something that I'm like, you know, I've been saying at the beginning of the every, every year that I'm going to do X, uh, and then I'm not doing it. And my keynote was one of those things like that. I was.
Nancy McClelland: Like, really.
Valerie Heckman: Speak on more stages. I, I have this value of being a speaker and being in community with other speakers and like doing all that. [00:32:30] And I had some of that in my life, but actually saying like, no, I'm going to be intentional about this and I'm going to measure the things that I'm doing every day to be a better speaker, to be more involved in the community.
Nancy McClelland: Wow. So if you hadn't been writing down the things that you were accomplishing, you might not have noticed the things that you wanted to do, but you weren't working toward.
Valerie Heckman: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, uh.
Nancy McClelland: That's [00:33:00] so insightful.
Valerie Heckman: It was like, okay, if I, if my to dos, you know, because sometimes you can have to dos that are definitely worth stopping and celebrating, but they're not necessarily like the things that you want to be spending your time on. And so I took a step back and said, okay, like, what do I need to add or remove to kind of get more ta da! In my days. Um. Right. Which led to me kind of turning this into a little bit of a campaign at Onp. Um, so I mentioned [00:33:30] I work, I work for Onp, we're a full service payroll company out of Atlanta and I was doing a session. So I went, I had a keynote at Scaling New Heights. And the next year I did a workshop on the Todolist. And one of the things that I like, let's incorporate this into our presence at the conference because in my mind, you need less to do's in order to have more to do's in some cases, right?
Questian Telka: Oh, and that was.
Valerie Heckman: What I had looked at a lot.
Nancy McClelland: Wait wait wait. Say it again. Say it [00:34:00] again. So the perfect slogan I.
Questian Telka: Know this.
Valerie Heckman: Isn't perfect grammar, but less to do's, more to dos, fewer to do's, more to dos. Um.
Nancy McClelland: And that it sounds better. I might be a bit of a grammar Nazi here, but I think less to dos, more to dos sounds sounds better.
Valerie Heckman: Uh, and so that that was kind of came out of like, okay, if you have some professional things that you're trying to do in your practice. So if I was just looking at this through the lens of the accounting community and payroll and technology, [00:34:30] right? If, if you're saying like, I have these big goals for what I want to be doing in my practice, but I'm not getting there, like, do I have things that I'm spending my time on that I shouldn't be? And how could I reassess that? And so I've done a little bit of workshopping with, with accounting professionals on that of like, okay, how do we look at this? Um, and scaling new heights and what did they do? A ton of like coaching on the ideal practice model and a lot of the themes of the conference kind of aligned [00:35:00] with that to me of like, okay, yeah, like we need to look at all the things that we are accomplishing. And then where do we have like capacity challenges or, you know, maybe it's you need to learn a new skill or in your case, Nancy, like, okay, we, we want to be more effective at tax season. So do we need new software or do we.
Questian Telka: Need.
Valerie Heckman: More support? Do we need additional employees? Do we need a consultant to come in and talk to us about stuff? So there's a lot of stuff like that that I think being [00:35:30] mindful of your ideas and to do's and all of that can really open up doors for, for bigger conversations and things you might need to add to your life or remove. And that's a big one for me is like, oh, well, I'm not having as much of a weekend as I want because I'm spending all my time doing X, Y, Z, and maybe those things don't serve me and I need to reevaluate how I'm spending my time.
Nancy McClelland: Well, and we keep talking about how the little things are really the [00:36:00] big things. Um, but sometimes the little things when they're on the to do side of the list can drag us down. And I think what you're saying is like, prevent us from doing the things right, the things that we can celebrate and, um, getting mired in all of those little things. There are. There are solutions. I used to feel so stuck. I used to feel trapped in my own firm. And you know, when I learned. I think it was at my first bridging the gap when I heard, [00:36:30] I think it was L Netia Jones talking about, um, you know, we talked about reduce, reuse, recycle in that order. And hers was, um, hers was eliminate, automate, delegate and in that order. And so like, if you have some to do's on your list, it's good. It's really good, right? If you have dos on your list that you're like, that doesn't need to exist. It's like, is that a process we actually need? Is that a step in the process we actually [00:37:00] need? Is that something that actually has value to our clients? If not, cross it off the list. It's kind of weird how much we do that prevents us from we to do, and it's preventing us from dying because it doesn't really need to be on there.
Questian Telka: And then you find out later that. So it's like I'll create a to do list. I was actually talking to somebody about this. Um, a couple of days ago. It's like you create a to do list and you realize when you get distracted from your to do list that like you'll come back to it later and you're like, oh, I never really actually needed to do [00:37:30] that anyway. And so it's just like, you know, making sure that you're eliminating those things. And yeah, absolutely.
Nancy McClelland: And then when you can't eliminate, you automate and what you can't automate, you delegate. And so that's a way to get that stuff off of there and leave room for these, these little things that are actually the big things.
Valerie Heckman: Right.
Nancy McClelland: That make it onto the to do list.
Valerie Heckman: And I always love when we hear stories of, of professionals that have actually figured out the ways to make themselves more available for their [00:38:00] family and make themselves more available for their own health, you know, be able to, to take the skiing trip during taxis and to be able to.
Questian Telka: Whatever.
Valerie Heckman: It is that you're like, this would really bring a lot of joy to my days and to my life. Like, how can I, how can I create that for myself? So for me, the practice kind of morphed into some of those types of discussions. Um, and where kind of the things that I'm an expert at helping people in sort of factor [00:38:30] into that. And I always come back to this, um, this like thought of Mick Jagger does not tune his own guitars. Like what are the things that only I can do? Um, you know, like, what are the.
Nancy McClelland: Things.
Valerie Heckman: That, that I'm doing that I don't need to be the one that's doing? Um, and how can I, like remove myself from that either through ideally through process, right? Like not necessarily just saying like, oh, I'm going to hire somebody else to do that. Sometimes that's what makes the most [00:39:00] sense. But also is there like process and operational improvements you can make? So tackling that from a business perspective, but also tackling that in our personal lives, right? Like having to say, oh, if I really want to hit these, you know, fitness goals or I want to eat more whole food, meals at home or whatever. Like how do I need to change my life to make that happen?
Nancy McClelland: Right?
Valerie Heckman: And then how I, how am I going to like, track my progress on that and celebrate the things that I am doing to make that a reality? Uh, and that's where the list [00:39:30] for me really comes into play.
Nancy McClelland: So yeah. Yes. So how does the, how does the to do list help people notice? Like, what are some specific things where the tadalis can help people notice and value the, the little moments now that we've, we've made some room for the things that we actually want to be dying. Um, how does this help people notice and value those little moments? And I'm going to start you off [00:40:00] by saying my own therapist has got who I mentioned all the freaking time, and she's going to be a guest of ours at some point. I've already talked to her about it and she comes up so often on the podcast. Um, you know, she talks about going meta like, but you have to train yourself. You have to notice those little moments as they're happening and you have to train yourself to do that because otherwise they're invisible. So the todolist is part of that. How does it help us notice and value these?
Valerie Heckman: Yeah. So I think the [00:40:30] big thing with that is that you've got to figure out a way that works for you to capture this. And there's a lot of ways to go about that, right? Um, so, you know, I'm writing them down at the end of the day, but maybe, maybe if you're really having a hard time, like if, if, when we did that little exercise towards the beginning of the episode, you're like, oh, this is actually really hard for me. Yeah, maybe you do need to figure out like, am I going to capture these as they happen? I really believe in the power of like the pen to paper making something real. But of course, you could track this stuff digitally [00:41:00] if you want to. I know somebody who does it as like little voice recordings. Um, I know someone who takes pictures to like, kind of capture.
Nancy McClelland: That's a great idea. Yeah.
Valerie Heckman: Um, I actually.
Nancy McClelland: For those of us who hate to journal, I do I. I think of, as I mentioned earlier, I think of my calendar as a journal, but then also my camera is definitely like, I, I take a picture of the sunset at night. I that's something that's really important to me. And one of these days I'm going to make a, an [00:41:30] encyclopedia sized book of sunset pictures because.
Questian Telka: I love that.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. Doesn't that sound fun?
Valerie Heckman: You should.
Nancy McClelland: At least.
Valerie Heckman: Do like a, a coffee table book.
Questian Telka: Yeah.
Valerie Heckman: Yeah. Encyclopedia size book. Um, yeah. So like figuring out, okay, like, when are you going to do it? Where are you going to track it? How are you going to track it? Do you want it to be, you know, if you are really saying like, hey, there's a specific area of life that I want more days out of like, maybe you have, I actually [00:42:00] tested this with something and it wasn't, it didn't work as well for me just because I, I tend to work best with something that's very flexible to when I do it. And this was I was trying to do like same single time every single day kind of, um, thing. But it was saying like, okay, if this is the big goal, like, how do I track the to dos each day against that one thing? Um, so that can work for people sometimes. Um, the photo thing, um, I had recommended this to my [00:42:30] mom because she was working on like a big, like basement cleanup project kind of thing. And it's like, well, if you take pictures of your progress each day, you'll sort of see that you're dying along the way.
Nancy McClelland: Um, that's actually a really, really, really good point because like progress.
Valerie Heckman: Like that, that's visual.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. Progress doesn't, it's not like today. It was a thing that I wanted to do a keynote and tomorrow I'm doing the keynote, right? Like you've got, you've got those big milestones and the Todolist [00:43:00] is helping you track the progress between those milestones.
Valerie Heckman: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's like consistency compounds. Yeah. If you're putting something on your kind of tadalis consistently of like, yeah, I did do that today. I did like, you know, you're trying to learn how to speak Spanish and you're putting, I did my, you know, Duolingo.
Nancy McClelland: Lingo.
Valerie Heckman: Like.
Questian Telka: Whatever.
Valerie Heckman: Right? You're kind of adding, adding that up along the way.
Nancy McClelland: Which actually goes to what you were saying about sharing it with others because like, I'm friends with some of [00:43:30] my accounting colleagues on Duolingo, Kristen Keates and Niall Carter and Randy Crabtree. Like we're where.
Questian Telka: We.
Nancy McClelland: Are, where.
Valerie Heckman: I pulled that example out of the sky.
Nancy McClelland: Did you realize.
Valerie Heckman: You did that? Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: Oh my God, that's hilarious. No, I really do. I mean, obviously I live in Mexico during tax season, so it makes sense that I would be working on my Spanish and everybody's working on their languages. And so yeah, we're kind of to dying each other every day or every [00:44:00] week when we're like, yay, you got your XP, yay, you hit your friends quest or whatever. That's a really good way to share with each other.
Valerie Heckman: And that's, that's huge. I mean, I was doing that with with Wordle. Like, I had a friend that like when we.
Questian Telka: Saw.
Valerie Heckman: Wordle during, you know, and those are the types of things of like, okay, how am I going to share this? How am I going to capture it? You know, is this something I want to do every day? Or is this something that I'm going to say? Okay, well, in my weekly meeting, I'm going to share something that went well this week, you know? So I [00:44:30] think you have to find a way to, to make it simple and make it personal for yourself, um, and make it something you can kind of sustain and keep top of mind. If it is a tool that you think will be helpful.
Nancy McClelland: You know, I will always remember, um, Ali Szymanski is, um, she just celebrated the other day. She celebrated eight years working with the dancing accountant. Ali, we love you. She she was like, first she was doing administrative stuff. She eventually [00:45:00] got into bookkeeping and then operations. And so she's kind of she's really my right hand woman. She handles so much. And I remember she emailed me when she did her first wage reconciliation.
Valerie Heckman: Oh.
Nancy McClelland: And it was kind of that like, oh, I know this is silly, but now like, it's so amazing.
Questian Telka: It's big.
Nancy McClelland: Remember QuickBooks desktop used to have like confetti, a little thing that said you did your reconciliation.
Questian Telka: Oh, back.
Nancy McClelland: In the day. Yeah. There was like a little thing that would come up [00:45:30] and I loved that pop up screen.
Questian Telka: I have to say.
Valerie Heckman: On pay has when you when you submit payroll, we have a little like, ta da thing that was there before I came on the company. So like, but, but, but also to me, that's a big thing, right? When I have, yeah, I work with accounting firms and they set up and they run their first client payroll on, on pay, like I am absolutely going to send them a message. Right?
Questian Telka: Yeah.
Valerie Heckman: Hey, and I, and I think you should do that with your clients too, [00:46:00] and with your team members when they're doing something for the first time, like, yeah, like let's acknowledge that.
Questian Telka: Yeah.
Valerie Heckman: If the. And a lot of us like, I don't know about you all, but I grew up being very motivated by gold stars and scratch.
Questian Telka: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Gold stars. Oh. Why did we stop doing that?
Valerie Heckman: Just because we're grown ups. Like, no, like we need to, to take that in. Like we maybe we shouldn't expect other people to give us gold stars, but we can give them to [00:46:30] ourselves.
Questian Telka: I love those charts when I was little. I mean, like, it's funny that you said that because I'd forgotten that they existed, but like, the teacher would give you them and you get to run over there and like, put it on the square and you're like, oh my God, that's so nice.
Nancy McClelland: I actually.
Questian Telka: Like.
Nancy McClelland: Have another sticker chart. I, I, I have a physical, I ordered it years ago. And, um, it was when I was trying to lose weight and get healthier and I got, I bought the foil stars that stick on them and it was absolutely [00:47:00] essential, uh, for when I was going through, I used to be a lot heavier and I lost about 20 pounds and have mostly kept it off for over a decade now. But gold stars were a big part of that. And I was like, and Mark, like made a like an Excel spreadsheet version of it. And I was like, that's nice for you. I like actually need physical gold stars that I stick. And so he created a little, um, once we got like sort of more granular about what we were trying to accomplish, [00:47:30] he created a little booklet for me that would sit in the kitchen and every day that I like drank enough glasses of water and, you know, did all the things I was supposed to do, eating the healthy foods because it wasn't just about not doing things that were unhealthy, it was about adding things in that were healthier. And that too took up more space.
Valerie Heckman: You had you had you been you had a to do list and you didn't even know it because.
Nancy McClelland: I didn't even know it.
Valerie Heckman: You know it, right? Like, I think charts can be a great version of a list. It doesn't have to be journaling out stuff that happened [00:48:00] or, or whatever. It can be as simple as that. So it's how you make it your own. But yeah, that I still to this day am very motivated by giving myself stickers.
Questian Telka: I love it.
Valerie Heckman: But even if it's just the mental confetti or the mental stickers, it's important to.
Questian Telka: That's important.
Valerie Heckman: Too. And that's kind of stuff.
Questian Telka: So if someone is listening now and feels overwhelmed or unseen or disconnected, what would you [00:48:30] what do you hope that their takeaway would be their biggest takeaway from the conversation today?
Valerie Heckman: Yeah, yeah. Um, well, I will say first off, like, I don't see this as a solution for burnout and overwhelm and all of those things. It's just a tool in the toolbox. And I definitely recommend finding other, other tools that can work for you and other resources and more than anything, know that you're not alone. We all go through that. Um, [00:49:00] even though I have this practice, I still have seasons that are really, really hard despite doing something like this. So like every you're not alone in that.
Nancy McClelland: Wait, you're not just a cheerful Pollyanna all the time. You're not just like.
Valerie Heckman: Don't tell.
Questian Telka: Anyone.
Nancy McClelland: Oh.
Questian Telka: Okay. Well, we've never seen it, that's for sure. Oh, no.
Valerie Heckman: Of course not. Uh, but yeah. So no, no, you're not alone in that. And like, I mean, it's probably cheesy to say, but like, [00:49:30] lean into the community around you. Um.
Nancy McClelland: It's not easy to say. Wait, I'm gonna interrupt you.
Questian Telka: Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: Yes. Question and I are all about I mean, that's what question.
Questian Telka: That's why.
Valerie Heckman: You're here.
Questian Telka: Right? Oh, yeah.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. So you feel seen, heard and never alone. You have a community.
Valerie Heckman: It's not cheesy to say. Uh, yeah, you deserve that recognition. You deserve that confetti. And if you're not getting it from [00:50:00] other people, you can give it to yourself. And I have to remind myself of that. Right? Like that.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Valerie Heckman: It's not just about the accolades that we get from the external. Those are great. But like, how can we really bring that into our own lives? The less to do more to the thing, I think if you can think about those areas in your life that you know, you need to add or remove things to make, make the todas that you're hoping to have more prominent. And then the theme of the day, right? Like the little things do matter. [00:50:30] And if we can lean into those ourselves and share them with others and ask others what's good in their lives.
Nancy McClelland: Um, yeah, what's good that happened today? How not just how we do and how we do in is important. And although that is something that I want to add earlier when you were talking about how it helps with gratitude, and we know that gratitude is, is definitely one of the things that we can foster more of in order to create resilience in our life. Um, [00:51:00] but gratitude doesn't have to cancel out your struggle. It doesn't mean you are not also struggling. And that is something that I want to say. You know, we. Yes. The little things matter. Yes, you deserve the confetti. And we can also validate each other and the struggles that we're going through while simultaneously celebrating.
Questian Telka: These good moments.
Valerie Heckman: Yeah. Like, don't just fixate on that and don't dismiss the, the, the good while you're on that topic, but also [00:51:30] don't do the opposite. Don't only focus on the good things and not not acknowledge where there's other, other areas of opportunity. For sure. Um.
Questian Telka: So yeah.
Nancy McClelland: If there's anybody in my life who knows how to spread enthusiasm. Valerie.
Questian Telka: Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree every time. I mean, we just, I feel like anyway, I guess I, I know I can speak for Nancy too, that I always just learn so much from you. And you were saying earlier, You were like, [00:52:00] um. That it was on your, your list that you wanted to accomplish for yourself to speak more. Well, we want you to speak more because every time.
Nancy McClelland: Yes.
Questian Telka: Do it's just gold. Um, and so it's like, I feel like I've learned a lot today, just, um, in more detail of exactly how to do it. And it's just like a good reminder to, to continue. Um, and I'm going to start right away because this [00:52:30] is something I am very bad at. So I need it.
Nancy McClelland: Um, hey, question. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a challenge and some support because I, I have a, I have a whole page of notes here. You know, how often I am showing my huge page of scribbles for those who are watching on YouTube?
Questian Telka: Um, all of our amazing show notes come from Nancy. If I had to do so, they wouldn't be there. Well, [00:53:00] before you say.
Valerie Heckman: That, I do want to say that being here with you all is on my to do list today for sure.
Questian Telka: Before we get.
Valerie Heckman: Into the homework for.
Nancy McClelland: Oh my God, that's so beautiful of you to say thank you.
Valerie Heckman: Thank you for for having me here to chat and I.
Questian Telka: Appreciate that too.
Nancy McClelland: Yes, exactly. So that is going to figure into the homework. What you just said is going to figure into this homework as well. Okay. So we had talked about one of the big things I have on here is I'm going to make a to do list before [00:53:30] I go to bed tonight. I'm hoping that it'll help me sleep better, because I'm not going to be thinking about all the things I didn't get done and what I have to now do tomorrow. I will then switch and look at. Look at all the things I accomplished today. One of which is going to be recording this episode with you, Valerie. And question. Here's what I would love. Will you tonight? You don't have to do it every day, but tonight will you text me your to do list?
Questian Telka: Yes. Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: I'll text you mine back [00:54:00] if you. Yeah. And we'll help each other.
Questian Telka: I remember that.
Valerie Heckman: With. We don't do it all the time, but we definitely do that. Or if we find ourselves, like in the, you know, ranty kind of mode, it's like, okay, let's like a better, like, what's a good thing that happened today? Yeah, a little bit.
Questian Telka: And then pull it back.
Valerie Heckman: Exactly, exactly. And you want to balance it, right? Sometimes we absolutely need to rant, but okay, can we like pull ourselves out of the doom [00:54:30] and gloom and all the terrible stuff going on in the world with just a little bit of grounding and.
Questian Telka: Yeah.
Valerie Heckman: We got we got to do. And what good's going on? Uh.
Questian Telka: Well, this was amazing. Thank you so much for joining us. Um, yeah, this was great. Definitely on my to do list as well. Um, as we wrap up, we'd like to ask listeners to follow our she counts LinkedIn page and to join on, join in on the conversation by sharing under the episode to celebrate [00:55:00] the little things. What's a ta da that you celebrate that you feel might be silly to others, but you get why it's big yourself?
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. Oh, I love that. I can't wait to see what people say.
Valerie Heckman: To see them either.
Questian Telka: Please tag.
Valerie Heckman: Me. I want to see them.
Questian Telka: Please.
Nancy McClelland: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, before we sign off, you know, we love ending every episode with a quote. And, Valerie, I'm going to try to do this without crying. Um, [00:55:30] I want to leave you with a quote from my very favorite poem, poet Marge Piercy, and my favorite poem by her, which we read at our wedding. And I got to read at a poetry reading when I was recovering from my, um, seizure episode. So it's a very special poem to me. It's called the Art of blessing the day. And in it she says, The art is in compressing attention to each little and big [00:56:00] blossom of the Tree of Life. To let the tongue sing each fruit, its savor, its aroma and its use.
Valerie Heckman: That is so beautiful. Ah, ah! I'm not. I'm not going to cry either. Yeah. No.
Nancy McClelland: I'm not crying.
Valerie Heckman: Look at us all. Ta da! We're not crying.
Questian Telka: That's right. It's a miracle.
Valerie Heckman: Oh, no. That's very. That's very. Will you send me [00:56:30] the full poem I want to read?
Nancy McClelland: I will, I will. I'm putting that on my list of show notes. You know what I'm going to share? I'm going to share the whole poem in the show notes as well.
Questian Telka: Thanks for being here with us on She Counts the Real Talk podcast for women in Accounting.
Nancy McClelland: If something in today's episode hit home for you, I'm so glad because that is exactly why we are doing this.
Questian Telka: So you feel seen, heard and never alone.
Nancy McClelland: Remember that you can get CPE credit [00:57:00] for listening at earmarked links to that, as well as how to learn more about our sponsors, solutions and any other resource will be in the aforementioned show notes.
Questian Telka: And please subscribe. And as Nancy mentioned earlier in the episode, leave us a review because it helps other people find the podcast. Also, please share with another woman in accounting who needs to hear it too.
Nancy McClelland: Many thanks again to our very, very, very, very, [00:57:30] very, very special guest, Valerie Heckman. We are so glad that you could join us today.
Valerie Heckman: Thank you so much. See you soon.
Questian Telka: And we'll see everyone in two weeks.