There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.
Nancy McClelland: Welcome to She Counts, the Real Talk podcast for women in accounting. We're your hosts, Nancy McClelland.
Questian Telka: And Questian Telka
Nancy McClelland: And every episode we're digging into the real experiences, challenges, and unspoken truths of life in this profession.
Questian Telka: Because if you've ever felt like you're the only one, you're not and you shouldn't have [00:00:30] to figure it out alone.
Nancy McClelland: Special thanks to our season two sponsors, Forwardly Relay and Client Hub. We're so grateful to them for helping us bring these conversations to life, enabling us to share out loud what everyone's thinking, but no one's saying. Learn more about them on our sponsors page at ESOP.
Questian Telka: And today's episode is called When There's No App for What You Need. Building the tool you wish you had. [00:01:00] And we have a special guest with us. The woman who founded accounting practice management tool Client Hub, Judy McCarthy. Welcome to She Counts. Judy.
Judy McCarthy: Thank you both. It's a it's a really great pleasure to be here today.
Nancy McClelland: Judy is a co-founder of Client Hub. And something that I thought was really interesting is that I was going to call her CEO. And she said, you know, that's one of our company values is that we don't use titles at Client Hub, which I thought was [00:01:30] really cool. So Client Hub is the client collaboration platform that she originally built to solve the workflow bottlenecks that were in her own bookkeeping firm, because before stepping into the tech world, she actually spent 25 years running a successful practice. I'm at 24 myself, Judy, so I've got one year to get to where you were, um, where she developed the systems, empathy and the client focus that now shape the way her software supports bookkeepers and accountants, and [00:02:00] today she's a recognized voice in the accounting tech space and a champion for giving firm owners tools that truly fit the way they work.
Questian Telka: And as everyone knows, we love watching each episode with a story. And, Judy, we want to talk to you about the problems you kept running into that made you say, there has to be a better way.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah, yeah. Let's start with the moment everything shifted the breaking point in your firm that led you to imagine [00:02:30] Client Hub. Can you take us to the exact moment in your firm where you were like, okay, none of the tools out there are going to solve this for me. Like, what was the specific workflow problem that pushed you over the edge?
Judy McCarthy: So you were looking for that? Oh yes. You know, I'm actually going to say that, um, it wasn't as magical as that, but it also really like the challenge wasn't my idea. So my team, we were sitting in a in a conference [00:03:00] room. We were having our regular team meeting, and we were always trying to be really, really productive, right? We were always looking for ways to increase productivity, deliver better client experience. And we're going around the room and my lead bookkeeper, and by the way, God rest her soul, she passed just about a year ago. Um. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah, I was sad to. She wasn't with me anymore because she was with the new firm, but she, um. She said our biggest challenge is getting the information that we need from our clients to do the work. And [00:03:30] I was like, well, wow, that's that's pretty big. Um, and so we kind of knew knew that that was an issue. And we kind of bounced around some ideas. We actually did a mini research study in my firm, and we found that we were spending about 33% of our time chasing clients for information. And can you imagine like.
Nancy McClelland: A full third of a full.
Judy McCarthy: Third of your time? Yeah. Sending requests, sending the repetitive reminders. Chasing clients down. [00:04:00]
Nancy McClelland: Oh, my God, I hate chasing clients down.
Questian Telka: Yeah, so do I.
Judy McCarthy: You know where it really came from was, um, you know, it wasn't our internal workflow. That was the biggest challenge. It was that external workflow. There are lots of great internal workflow tools on the market. And we were using we had tried several of them and we were using one at the time. But I was sitting in my office. It was late one Friday afternoon getting ready to finish up, and suddenly my phone rings and I looked at the caller ID and it was one of my biggest clients. But I have to admit, she was a little bit difficult [00:04:30] and she starts yelling at me and she wants a new bookkeeper. And I said, what's going on? She said, the bookkeeper is harassing me for the same information over and over again. So I kind of talked her off the ledge that afternoon. I said, listen, it's Friday. Let me dig into this first thing Monday morning. So I met with the bookkeeper Monday morning, and, um, we kind of went over the email thread and, you know, it it wasn't the bookkeeper. It's the way that we as firm owners normally traditionally communicated. And [00:05:00] again, I started my practice back in the late 1990s. Our communications back then were phone and fax and in person. Right. So now email comes along and emails the oldest technology now in our stack because we have retired fax.
Nancy McClelland: Um thank goodness.
Judy McCarthy: Thank goodness. Yes. So you know, I looked we looked back at the emails and what we were doing is we were sending emails to clients asking multiple questions at the end of doing their accounting each week. And so clients would always respond to [00:05:30] the email and they would never give us all the answers. So the next week it was starting that whole vicious cycle I know.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. So classic. Oh my gosh. And it's you know, it's not just our clients. My, my, the other CPA and my firm are our tax specialists. She's amazing. I love her. But she admits she's like, I never read to the bottom of your emails. And I'm like, oh gosh, I gotta put all the important stuff right at the top.
Judy McCarthy: Right and at the top they'll only read the first paragraph at most. Yeah. Um.
Questian Telka: I'm guilty of that. I'm an email skimmer. I'm terrible at it. I'm just [00:06:00] like, skim through the emails fast as I can. And inevitably, if you do that, you miss things, right?
Judy McCarthy: Yeah, absolutely.
Questian Telka: The AI summarize function that is in my email is helpful.
Judy McCarthy: Oh yeah. That was about 15 years too late for this, you know. Right. You know, my my client. I was afraid she was one of our biggest clients. She had multiple different businesses. She was a very high powered woman. And I thought, okay, this is it. We're going to lose this client. So I had to call her back after that meeting. And I had to say, listen, uh, we love you, but, you know, the bookkeeper's [00:06:30] not harassing you like this is on you. And I kind of explained to her what was happening, and suddenly the the phone just went dead, and I thought, oh, she's hung up on me. And I realized she was crying and she said,
Questian Telka: Oh my God, yes.
Judy McCarthy: And she said, it is so hard to keep up with everything. She's running two businesses. You know, questions from us about all these transactions. And she was so stressed out and I thought, wow, this is a horrible client experience.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. [00:07:00] Even though it was their fault, though, like, that's one of the things that makes me kind of crazy is that you're like, you brought this on yourself because you're not reading the whole email. But when you're that when you're running your own business, it's everything. It's just overwhelming. And yeah, she probably felt guilty. And at the same time as as she was upset and angry.
Judy McCarthy: I think. So she was she was just overwhelmed. Yeah. She did feel guilty. And so it was great because her and I started brainstorming [00:07:30] ideas like, how could we be better at this? And so she said, well, how about you send me one email for everything? Every question. I was like, that is not going to work because I said, we're going to be having this, this phone call. You're complaining about too many emails. So we came up with the idea of a shared Google sheet, right. Because this was before notion or, you know, a lot of the tools that we have today. Yeah. So we created a shared Google Sheet. That was great. She said, I'll go in at the end of every week. I'll answer all the questions. That didn't last two weeks, right. And so I this [00:08:00] was when really I thought there has to be a better way. Right. And and we need to solve for this. And there really were not any good tools on the market at that time. Of course, now we've got more tools than we had back in 2000, you know, 17 or 2016 at the time where we started thinking about this. Um, but yeah, we have to think about the experience that, that our clients are having, not just getting the work done.
Judy McCarthy: I mean, I don't want to I don't mean this disrespectfully as accounts, but [00:08:30] I mean, you can teach accounting, right? And you can teach QuickBooks, but can you teach that level of empathy that you need to really understand the needs of your client? And we started going and talking to all of our clients about this, like, how can what can we do to make it easier for you to provide us what we need? Um. And from that was born, you know, the very first version of Client Hub. Um, you know, I brainstormed it with my now business partner. I had the, the [00:09:00] luxury of being introduced to him by a mutual friend, and we brainstormed ideas and I think we came up together. He had a couple ideas for some apps and, and we kind of settled on Client Hub as the one, the client portal, and that's how we started. It's just a really simple client portal for those communications. The product has evolved over the years to, you know, a full practice management solution that we look at now.
Questian Telka: Yeah, yeah. Of course. So it's like you initially didn't set out to build software. You were just trying to solve [00:09:30] a problem, a common problem that we've all experienced. And I still deal with it on a regular basis. I'm sure Nancy does too. Um, what did it take you to get to the point where you were emotionally and and practically ready to step away from a 25 year bookkeeping business to just launch something completely new.
Judy McCarthy: What did it take? Oh, goodness.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. And I want to know, especially because I've I'm 24 [00:10:00] years in and launched ask a CPA and she counts in the past year and a half and and it's hard because I'm still running the firm and it you know it's this is I have a vested interest in your answer here.
Judy McCarthy: So first of all, it was something that had been kind of on my mind. You know, when we first started Client Hub, I my I, my expectations were not that it was going to grow to this. I just didn't think, you know, I [00:10:30] originally I thought, okay, first of all, I wanted a solution for my own firm. And then when my partner and I got together and said, okay, we're going to start building something. And when you when you invest that kind of time and money into a solution, yes, you have to bring it to market. Um, so for me, I was juggling two full time jobs at once. I was managing my practice and I was managing Client Hub, and that went on for a couple of years, and it finally took me about two years to really wrap my head around the idea of selling my practice. [00:11:00] And I think the reason for that is that, number one, I had done it for so long, and it was my way of life and it was steady income. Trust me, the software business is not steady.
Nancy McClelland: And that doesn't surprise me.
Judy McCarthy: You're a startup, right? You've gotta you've got so much to invest back into the company. Otherwise you know it's not going to make it.
Questian Telka: But yeah, it's hard to let go of something that you've spent and invested so much time and energy in and shift to [00:11:30] something completely. I mean, I guess it's not completely different, but it is wildly different. So that that seems like it would have. I can see why it would take you two years. I would be very difficult for me and I've only had my firm for five.
Nancy McClelland: I'm surprised it only took two years.
Judy McCarthy: Like it probably took longer. Um, but yeah, it was like the last two years. I was really, really serious about it. And for me, it was that emotional attachment to my clients. I, I [00:12:00] knew all of them, and many of my clients had been with me for over 20 years. So I needed to make sure that they were going to be well taken care of. I needed to make sure that it was a good transition for my team. And then, of course, you know, clients had to receive that. Remember, I talked about that that client experience we had worked so hard on that I needed to make sure that whoever I sold the practice to was going to get that same level, um, of experience.
Nancy McClelland: I know so many people who've sold their firms, and [00:12:30] it was just a horrible experience because they found out afterward, oh, the clients aren't happy. These people don't care about them the way I always have. And it's it's really heartbreaking because, I mean, you develop personal relationships. I've had I have clients that have been with me for, you know, 20 years.
Questian Telka: Me too. Only five. Because. Because mine is only five years old. But. Yeah. But since.
Nancy McClelland: The beginning.
Questian Telka: Since the very beginning. Yeah. And you have an emotional, you know, connection [00:13:00] to them and to their, you know, for me, their missions for everyone else, their businesses and the success. So yeah, I've, I have heard that a lot from accountants. We're so I feel like we're all so empathetic. Um, we're always going out of our way and trying to do more for our clients that we are. Often when there are stories of people selling their firms, they're often very focused on making sure that that transition is you want it to you want [00:13:30] your firm's reputation to live on after you've sold it, right?
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: Like a legacy, you know, like you made a difference in their lives. And when you're making a difference in the lives of small businesses and nonprofits. You're making a difference in their communities because it's their vibrancy that is really lending itself to communities that are strong and united and and colorful.
Judy McCarthy: And, you know, a lot of them were almost like family. I mean, I got married in [00:14:00] 2003, and, and I had several of my clients were that were there at my wedding.
Judy McCarthy: It's.
Nancy McClelland: Oh.
Judy McCarthy: Because they were just friends.
Judy McCarthy: They were like friends and family. And that was when the firm was smaller, of course. But, um, and it's, you know, I think as women, as women, because we are caretakers, that is so much more important to us. I think had I, you know, men selling a practice probably doesn't think so much about that. You know, they're.
Judy McCarthy: Like, okay I'm going to get rid of [00:14:30] this practice. I'm going to take the, you know, get rid of it quick, take the biggest, the biggest payout. And and I'm going to go sorry guys I had to but you know yeah I mean.
Nancy McClelland: I have never done the research on that, but now you have given me an idea like, I want to see some data about that.
Questian Telka: Well, Nancy and I actually, when we were, you know, talking about, um, episodes and we were doing planning for the podcast and things like that, we were like, well, what, you know, we're having these what if scenarios in our mind, right? And so as we're going through these what if scenarios [00:15:00] for planning and, you know, making business decisions, like we were really focused on, um, the emotional some emotional pieces and some empathetic sides and like managing relationships with, you know, our, um, our guests and our sponsors and things like that. And I said to Nancy, she's like, well, what are we going to do? And I said, we just have to think about it like a man.
Nancy McClelland: She did. She was trying to get me to to get both of us to like, emotionally detach [00:15:30] a little bit and so that we could do decision because we would get paralyzed with decision making when it was all emotions. So yeah. Like pulling pulling away a little bit did have to happen. That's a that's a good I'd kind of forgotten about that. She's like oh yeah you did say that. But you know it was kind.
Questian Telka: Of kind of kidding. But also not also not.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Judy McCarthy: But but we do and and you know, for many years at Client Hub I was the chief cook and bottle washer. I was it all, um, [00:16:00] you know, of course I got my team. I don't do any of the coding. I don't my my partner manages the product team and the product management. But still, there comes to a point in any business where you do have to you have to let it trust the people that are doing the work, like trust other people to take that over. And it's it's really hard. But, um, you know, hey, it feels good.
Nancy McClelland: What happened during your sales process? Like, what did what did that look? Did you [00:16:30] did you go for the highest bidder or did you like, how did you even how did you even begin to choose who was going to take your legacy and and carry it forward.
Judy McCarthy: So a couple of things that I did. Number one is I went through a broker. The broker wrote up, we talked about it. The broker wrote up the ad copy, which was absolutely horrendous.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, gosh. Oh, no. It was so.
Judy McCarthy: It was it was typical accounting. You know, it was like, oh, accounting firm for sale. They [00:17:00] do, you know, it was all about the numbers. It was nothing about what is the practice. So I rewrote the ad copy because I really wanted to attract the right kind of firm, not just any kind of firm that was looking for revenue, looking to build their customer base. I wanted a firm that was looking to implement the same types of processes. They were, you know, tech forward. And so with the broker, you know, they kind of prescreen a lot of the offers. And um, I had, which was amazing. I had 20 [00:17:30] offers of my asking price or better within the first 24 hours. Wow. And they kept kind of rolling in. It was.
Nancy McClelland: Amazing.
Judy McCarthy: Yeah. That's overwhelming. So, um, they kind of prescreen they do a lot of, you know, we had conversations, said, here's what I'm looking for. And so I was able to make the selection of who I wanted to interview. And I did several of the interviews. Time and time again. And I believe in gut, right. I believe in going with your gut. Like first [00:18:00] impressions mean a whole lot. And, um.
Nancy McClelland: And I have to interrupt for a second to say I was talking with my husband a couple weeks ago because he's reading this book on motivation. And one of the things that she says in the book is that we we talk about something being a gut reaction. But what that gut is, is actually your entire lifetime of experience. And yes, that's right. We we sort of under represent how much brain we're putting [00:18:30] into it when we talk about our gut, because it is the sum total of a lifetime of learning lessons. So please continue. I just had to give you some some credit for your gut there.
Judy McCarthy: And don't forget our women's intuition. Yes that's true. Yes, that is true. So I went through nothing really excited me, and I think I had narrowed it down to about 3 or 4 firms. And I still had one more, one more interview. And, uh, and I interviewed a gentleman in Texas. Uh, he's [00:19:00] the one I ended up selling the practice to. Uh, he had a small practice to begin with. Within ten minutes of the start of that conversation, I knew he was the one I knew. It's. It was just. I could just feel it. And out of all of them. Yeah, yeah. And again. So then it kind of went, I think I had to pick my top three. And the broker reached out to them and said, okay, you're the top three, make your best offer. And he was I think he was the lowest. [00:19:30] And, you know, there wasn't a lot of difference between the offers, but he was the the lowest, but he was the right one for me. He was the right one for my clients. He had, you know, everything about the whole offer and the transition planning and and the way he ran his firm, it felt more like a family firm. And it was just it was great.
Nancy McClelland: I love that you're talking about how they have to be tech forward and personal relationships at the same time, because I actually gave a talk at Intuit Connect about how people think when you automate and use AI [00:20:00] and stuff like that, that it takes away from the personal experience. And I make the argument that you can actually lean into the personal experience when you are tech forward and using this stuff.
Judy McCarthy: Absolutely. Yeah. Because it gives you more opportunity. You have more time, more opportunity and more tools to help you in working with your clients.
Questian Telka: So are you happy with are you happy with how the sale worked out?
Judy McCarthy: I was really happy with how the sale worked out. The transition was so quick and seamless and easy, and I thought for sure it was going to [00:20:30] take forever. My clients were happy. Um, the hardest thing was telling them. And it's something that he and I did together on a zoom meeting with them. Um, that was the hardest it together. We did. We did that.
Judy McCarthy: And they never they never had any. Even my team like. And I have to tell you a funny story, and this is not like a plug for client hub, but I had, uh, my lead bookkeeper when I first told her I had sold a practice because we waited until it was closed, and she was we were on a zoom, and she was kind of stunned [00:21:00] for a minute. And then she goes, I don't have to give up client using client hub, do I?
Judy McCarthy: I said, Jackie, we've been together eight years and you're worried about giving up your tech, not losing me, you know? So.
Nancy McClelland: Oh my God, that's hilarious.
Judy McCarthy: But I had one of my clients do the same thing in the in the meeting. She's like, I'm not going to have to give up using Client Hub, am I? I was like, well, I'm going to miss you too. Like, yeah, right.
Questian Telka: You're like, what about me? Hello. So I'm, [00:21:30] I'm always having this topic was really interesting to me. Um, because I had told Nancy before, like, I'm always having ideas for pieces of technology or apps that I feel like would benefit myself or other bookkeepers and accountants, but I've just never felt like it was something that I could execute on because I have absolutely no coding experience and, you know, would not have much of an idea where to start. So and what convinced [00:22:00] you that moving from having your practice to building software was worth the risk? Like, how did you know that it was time to trade, making do with what you had to, making something new?
Nancy McClelland: That's a great question. I want to know the answer to that too.
Judy McCarthy: So, you know, it's a kind of a scary one for thinking like there's a better way to let's let's build software. Right? That's a really scary thing to think of because as I mentioned, you [00:22:30] know, there's a big investment of time and there's a big investment of money, right? Uh, for me, fortunately, I had some really strong connections in the accounting space. I had been speaking at conferences I'd been attending conferences for for many years. I had actually worked for another technology company briefly, but I had that again. I had the great fortune of being introduced to my business partner, and he was an experienced product manager. Um, I am a software developer from the 1980s. Code is so much different, [00:23:00] right? We, by the way, we're working on windows now, not DOS systems or basic systems. So so I couldn't write code to save my life right now. Um, so, you know, really, uh, you know, brainstorming an idea coming up with, with an idea, but not only coming up with an idea is that you have to you have to think about is there a market for the idea? Right. Just because it's I need. Just because I have a problem [00:23:30] doesn't mean the two of you have that same problem. And I was pretty sure we did, because I had a lot of friends in the in the accounting space. But, you know, looking back, um, you know, I've met lots of accountants that have had great ideas. Um, but bringing it to life, um, you have to have not only a vision for the initial product, but where are you going to take that product? What is the vision for evolving it? Right.
Judy McCarthy: We started with a simple client portal that was good enough for me right [00:24:00] then, but we had to again have the vision to, um, to kind of move forward with the with the product, uh, today, client hub, you know, we started as a client communication file exchange system and client tasks. So getting answers from clients. Today we're a really robust practice management solution. We include internal workflow, um, robust file management integrations with QuickBooks Xero anchor. Zapier integration with Microsoft. Coming up, we've got AI features. And so, [00:24:30] you know, you really have to have you have to have that strong vision, right, for the future of the product if you're taking it to market. With that said, by the way, there are a lot of people I know that have just gone ahead and built solutions for their own practice, and that's great. Yeah, and if you want to solve your problem, sell it to your friends, like not make a business out of it. But we had really decided that we wanted a lifestyle business built out of building client hub and just finding the right people. We were fortunate again, with the connections [00:25:00] that both my partner and I had to put together a team. We've got an amazing team of developers, all of which have been with us since day one. No.
Nancy McClelland: Turn on today. The the people who are developers today have been with you since the beginning of Client Hub.
Judy McCarthy: Yes. 2017. I'm sorry, I think I got that date wrong. Yes. 2017. These are the guys that started building the prototype. Designing the product.
Nancy McClelland: Wow.
Judy McCarthy: You know, just to have that team. And we've added on, you [00:25:30] know, to the team. But the core team is all. All the original.
Nancy McClelland: That's incredible. Yeah. You can tell your relationship focused.
Questian Telka: Yeah. So let's say okay. So it's like you have an idea, right? Like I've come up with an idea and clearly none of mine are, are that great because I can't even remember what they are now.
Judy McCarthy: I have 100. I'll share it with you.
Questian Telka: Right? Like I'm like, they come and then they go and I'm like, oh, I really need to make this. And then it just it goes away. But if you, if I wanted to vet an idea or somebody else has an idea and they want to vet it, what are the [00:26:00] first steps that you would. What advice would you give? What are the first steps that you would recommend someone take in order to vet the idea? You know, maybe it's wait a month to see if you remember what it is still.
Judy McCarthy: So first of all, write it down. I have a whiteboard on my desk. I have a little this little whiteboard things on my desk. So whenever something comes to mind, I jot it right down on there because I will forget it in about five minutes. It's like going to the kitchen and standing there and saying, what did I come in here for? Yeah, like. [00:26:30]
Questian Telka: As soon as you walk through a doorway, that's what happens to me. It's like the thing, it's like you walk through a doorway and it just goes poof out of my mind.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Judy McCarthy: What am I doing here? So write it down, write it down, take notes. And if you have some ideas, I mean, start jotting up a document. But but the thing is to talk. Talk to your connections. Talk to your community. Talk to your network, talk to other software developers. I have firms that reach out to me all the time saying, hey, I have an idea. Would you mind if I bounce it off you? [00:27:00] Right? And so start talking to people, and don't be afraid that somebody's going to steal your idea, because chances are somebody else has the idea, or the other chance is they're not going to steal it and run. That's I don't think I've ever heard of that happening. I suppose it could.
Nancy McClelland: That is incredibly good advice. Like, don't have that be the thing that keeps you. In other words, the value, the amount of risk involved in somebody stealing that idea and actually running with it and building something that can go to [00:27:30] market and be successful versus the value of talking with other people about it and how much that's going to give you, like, don't worry about that risk.
Judy McCarthy: No, don't. And and the other thing is, you know, you never know what you're going to stumble upon like a great business partner. My business partner and I, we we just kind of met. I wasn't looking for somebody to really build a client portal, and he wasn't looking to build a client portal. We were just talking about different software projects. And so it just kind of came to [00:28:00] fruition that we were we were really well aligned on this idea, started doing that market research again with all of our network and our connections to see if, hey, if we build it, will they buy it? Right? And so that's really how we started it. And and kind of looking again at just scope out. It's funny, I think I have the original PowerPoint presentation that I created when I was talking to him about, hey, here's what I'm thinking. And then I think I have his kind of initial iteration. [00:28:30]
Nancy McClelland: That is so awesome. So you took these notes, you made it into a PowerPoint so that it was just very clear and organized when you were going to present it. That was that was like way before you came up with the investment and capital and all of that kind of stuff. You just came up with a clear way to communicate your vision.
Judy McCarthy: The two of us together. Yeah. And we probably did that for about four or so months just continuously chatting. And then again, speaking to our network and going through our notes and comparing [00:29:00] comparing notes with each other until we finally said, hey, let's let's start building. Let's start building a product. Um, and so again, we had the we had the great fortune of, um, he stumbled upon somebody that was working on another software project that just happened in, oh, two developers looking looking for work. And, um, they just it was a perfect fit. And they started building and we started thinking about a go to market strategy. And it probably wasn't until I [00:29:30] guess six, seven, eight months in that we said, hey, let's make this a business. Um, how are we going to structure this? How are we going to work together as partners? Um, what is our mission? What is our values and really starting to take shape? Like, we didn't have to do it all up front. Um, yeah. That's fantastic. And then with product release, you know, we could have sat there. And it's funny, I remember Laura Redmond from Arrow Workflow telling me.
Nancy McClelland: I know Laura.
Judy McCarthy: Yeah. Laura and we were talking about this and we were getting ready to release Client Hub. And I'm like, it's not [00:30:00] ready. It's not ready. And she said, it will never be ready. It'll never be ready. So thank you Laura. Thank you.
Questian Telka: Laura.
Nancy McClelland: That is such good advice for so many things in our lives especially, you know, there's so many women who are perfectionists.
Questian Telka: Perfectionists.
Nancy McClelland: And we don't want to put anything out there. We don't even want to open our mouths. Well, me, I'll open my mouth anytime. But most so many women that I know don't even want to say it out loud unless it's [00:30:30] perfect and it's thought through and it's exactly. But yeah, it will never be ready. So just do it.
Judy McCarthy: Yeah. Never. Perfect. And I even fall that way sometimes with new features. He'll want to release new features and I'll be like, no, they're not, you know, they're not ready. And then but I've gotten so much better about saying, okay, let's let it go at this level and we'll continue to to build it out. So it's almost, almost like our sometimes like things have turned and sometimes he's not ready to release. And I'm like, hey, let's let's let it go, you know, [00:31:00] with the basic features and let's build out and let's let our customers tell us what more it needs instead of us building what we think it needs.
Nancy McClelland: You know, I that leads me to a thought which is, um, that we've talked a lot on the podcast about reframing soft skills. I hate that word soft. I haven't come up with a better word for it yet, but I want to reframe those they they are essential business skills. There's nothing soft about them. You know, like we [00:31:30] talk about how empathy and clarity and boundary setting that how these help make great bookkeepers and accountants. And you were just talking about, like, this whole this whole process of defining values and how you're working together and culture. So I'm kind of guessing that these also help make great product designers, right? I mean, I question I'm guessing you're feeling the same way.
Questian Telka: Yeah. [00:32:00] Of course. I mean, I think our audience I know I want to hear about the qualities and the culture that kept your bookkeeping firm thriving, transformed into, like, you know, leadership, communication. And then the very client centric thinking that helped you shape the culture around Client Hub.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. So which soft skill from your bookkeeping [00:32:30] days ended up becoming the most valuable in actually designing and leading a tech product?
Judy McCarthy: Well, actually, I'm going to go back to before my accounting practice. In a previous life I was in management in the automotive profession. And so I went to management leadership training. And I remember them saying the most important communication skill you have is listening. And I was like like I was like, oh my goodness. Like, is [00:33:00] that really communication? Right. Because you think of communication as talking but listening and understanding the needs. And so it's not just the needs of our partners, which we call our customers, our partners, but it's also our team. And so we need to listen and understand the challenges in the firm. Yes, I ran a firm for 25 years, but my firm was different than your firm again, in your firm. So my challenges might be different [00:33:30] than yours. So we have to listen to all the firms. We're not building a product for me. I sold my practice. We're not building a product for my developers. And honestly, I see that a lot in technology profession. I see developers say, hey, listen, we're looking for a good idea. They brainstorm, they get an idea, and they say, we're going to we're going to build software and they build what they think their customer needs. And that is.
Nancy McClelland: Definitely think of a couple tools right now that are making me crazy for exactly [00:34:00] that reason. Who shall remain nameless?
Judy McCarthy: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we won't go there. But yeah, there are a lot of them. And so number one we have to listen to our customers. We have to talk with them, we have to listen. And we take extensive notes during the sales process, the customer success process, like anytime we meet. And of course now we use AI tools to help us out, but we want to understand what our customers need or what our potential customers need. And then we also have to listen to our team [00:34:30] about and to our vision for the product. So, you know, it's funny because we have people that make feature suggestions all the time. We actually have a link right there in the product. You've got a great idea. Tell us what it is we want to know. And so you don't have to send us an email or go to customer support. But we we want to know, like how is that going to help your firm. But we also have to look at does this fit the vision of our product. We have to stay true to ourselves.
Nancy McClelland: So what [00:35:00] does that mean when you're talking about a software company.
Judy McCarthy: So when we're talking about staying true to ourselves.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Judy McCarthy: Well, you know, again, a good example was, you know, we're a client portal, internal workflow, file management. We'll get people that for many years have asked us to, um, implement something like let's say time and billing. Mhm. Right. And traditionally in a lot of practice management solutions time and billing was a product in there. Yeah. Um, [00:35:30] for today I have to say that that would probably be a really great revenue stream for us if we're collecting, you know, electronic payments through merchant fees. But for us right now, and I'm not saying we'll never put in time and billing, but for us, it was the perfect way to say, hey, listen, let us partner with somebody. And we partnered with anchor to provide a billing solution that integrates with Client Hub to for some automation. And because that wasn't the direction we really [00:36:00] thought was best for our product.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. Um, oh my gosh, that's such a great example. So you're just you're trying to keep it simple and do what you do best so that you can provide that to your customers, and then help them find alternatives for the other bells and whistles.
Judy McCarthy: It is. Yeah. And we'll make suggestions. And you nailed it when you said keep it simple because, um, I'm going to use Salesforce, for example. Either one of you ever use Salesforce as a CRM?
Nancy McClelland: No, but I've [00:36:30] been on the horrible receiving end of people who who can't. I've been trying to switch tax software. No, this actually happened to me. Um, so I've been trying to switch tax software after over 20 years with my old software, and I'm switching to, um, I'm switching to Pro Connect, uh, which is an Intuit product, and I do a lot of work with Intuit. And so they, like, set me up with one of their best people. And I literally did not hear from him for three weeks after our, our original conversation. [00:37:00] And it turned out it was because he was responding to me through Salesforce. And there was something in there that where I had said a zillion years ago, I had said, I don't want any marketing information from Intuit. And so I wasn't getting his emails and he was sending them and I wasn't getting them. And I was just like, really? This is this is how that system works. Like, you can't, doesn't it? If somebody is really eager and it's November 4th [00:37:30] and you don't hear from them for three weeks, and they're switching tax software for this coming year, like there's got to be something wrong with your systems because that person did not ghost you. I promise it was frustrating.
Judy McCarthy: It's so what really what I was. And I know practice management solutions. Like there's all these solutions where there's all these bells and whistles and, and, you know, complicated settings and setups. They're not going to help you get the work done. Our product is focused on let's [00:38:00] help you get the work done right. That's the most important thing. Time and billing. You get QuickBooks, you've got other solutions. If you need a CRM for your sales process, great. You've got Pipedrive, HubSpot. But Client Hub is really designed to help affirm, be productive, get the client work done, just get the work done, and help your team make sure the work gets done the right way and you're communicating and collaborating with your clients. So we need to keep it simple. And [00:38:30] there are a lot of times I've gone back to my product team and we're building a new feature, and, you know, they're getting ready to release it into our QA server. And I look at it and I'm like, okay, I want you to cut out this 50% of the features. Like, let's just keep it simple. We probably don't need it to do X, Y, and Z. If we do, let's let our customers tell us, because sometimes that delays the the development of that new feature.
Questian Telka: Yeah. So you're using strategic partnerships with other [00:39:00] apps to kind of fill in, you know, give, give the clients options in those other areas so that you can really kind of focus on what you've determined is the the main priority for client hub and, and for what your clients are looking to get out of it. Right.
Judy McCarthy: And for what we're looking for the the value we are looking to deliver. Yeah. Yeah.
Questian Telka: So we've talked previously on um she counts and, and specifically on our episode about, um, women [00:39:30] adopting the use of AI that it's so unusual or it's more unusual for women to take the kind of leap that, um, you've taken from moving from, you know, accounting into the tech world and, you know, as a tech founder. So what was one barrier that you ran into that you feel that a male founder probably wouldn't have run into during that process? [00:40:00] And how did you navigate it?
Nancy McClelland: And actually, I want to interrupt. Before you answer that, I want to make sure that our audience knows. So obviously Client Hub is a sponsor. And we're very, very proud to have them as a sponsor. But we actually invited Judy, uh, independent of that, we because we wanted a woman owned tech company or, you know, a woman leader in technology is who we were looking for. And we had a very short list. Um, and we will have some some more on [00:40:30] the show in the coming months.
Questian Telka: But yeah, we really wanted that perspective.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. And, um, and so it was we're very, very proud to have Client Hub as a sponsor, and I don't want to disregard that at all. Um, however, like we invited Judy on here because we were like, God, there aren't that women, many women in technology, in accounting, like we want to we want to talk to to somebody about it. So yeah, so few.
Questian Telka: So few female tech founders in accounting. Um, so, [00:41:00] yeah, we want to I want to we want to understand, like, what were some of the barriers and how how did you navigate, um, barriers that, you know, a male founder probably has not had to deal with?
Judy McCarthy: Well, I think you're going to be surprised at the answer to that question. So.
Questian Telka: Really, I mean, we we want we want the real answer. We're not.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah, yeah. You're all I know. You're all about authenticity. So [00:41:30] give it to us straight.
Judy McCarthy: Okay, guys, listen up. Um, so for me, so kind of a backstory to me, I lost my mom when I was 22 years old.
Nancy McClelland: And I'm so sorry that.
Judy McCarthy: Well, thank you.
Questian Telka: I'm so young, much older.
Judy McCarthy: It was young. I felt kind of lost. Um, but she was really my greatest champion. My biggest champion. Um, and she always kind of told me that there were really no limits to what I could do or who I could become. Um, and because of that influence, I influence. I really never I never saw [00:42:00] barriers in anything that I did. And, you know, I mentioned that I worked first, my first, uh, previous, uh, my previous lifetime, I worked in the automotive industry. Um, then I went to accounting and then technology, which these are all male dominated fields. They always have been. But I never I never thought it's funny because people always talked about, oh, how's it feel to work in a male dominated field? But I never saw myself as any different or less than. And [00:42:30] I think that mindset for me made all the difference. Like, I never walked into a room full of men and thought, oh, I'm the only woman here. I'm I'm an equal. And again, I have to credit my mother for that. She was just a great leader. She was a single mom, just a great mom to have. And just I just never felt like I was different, and I guess I was right.
Questian Telka: Can I ask, were there things that the men who you're in those rooms with did [00:43:00] to make sure that you didn't feel that way? Because I also, you know, I feel I agree with you. Like I walk into a room and I feel like I feel like I'm an equal. And I have, you know, the same amount to give as any male. But then there are some situations that come about that Nancy.
Nancy McClelland: Were.
Questian Telka: Going to say something.
Nancy McClelland: Only because I want to say it's one thing to go into a room and feel like you're an equal. It's another thing to actually be treated that way. Right. And to feel like they also [00:43:30] consider you an equal, don't you think? I mean, that's.
Judy McCarthy: I think so.
Nancy McClelland: We both struggled with that.
Judy McCarthy: And I don't yeah. And I mean I've never asked anyone like do you think of me as an equal. But I want to say it's probably it's the choices that you make and the people that you align yourself with. And I have just been and again accounting and technology we have some just amazing, amazing people in this profession. You know, I've had the privilege of working [00:44:00] working with exceptional male leaders like Rene Lasser, Greg LaFollette, Doug Sliter, Joe Woodard, and then all the other inspiring women like Casey Johnson and Denise Diaz.
Nancy McClelland: Yes.
Judy McCarthy: Sabrina Parsons. Um, you know, yeah. When you think about, I have to say, I sometimes get more nervous walking into a room with strong, inspiring women like that than I do a room full of men. I'm just in awe of of [00:44:30] them. I mean, now, I mean, now I just feel like I'm part of the bride of the gang or part of the tribe. But, you know, just you're right.
Questian Telka: It can be really intimidating. And, um, I think what makes some of those women so inspiring and amazing is that they are very they're they're welcoming and giving of their knowledge and support and mentorship, which is so important that we [00:45:00] as women do for one another.
Nancy McClelland: Absolutely. And it's sounding like, Judy, you you had some of that with the men in your professional life as well, which is really encouraging to hear.
Judy McCarthy: I did. And even in automotive. Um, I felt as though, um, it was a there were a little tough struggles. Of course, that was back in the 1980s, 1990s. Things were a little bit different then, but still, for me, I just never looked at it as barriers. [00:45:30] I started out, um, when I was still in school, I started driving a truck to deliver, you know, parts, auto parts to automotive shops. And then I worked my way up to upper management within within the field. And again, I think I just I just never looked at any barriers. And I know there are a lot of women that do experience that I don't want to. I don't want people to think that I'm saying there aren't barriers because there are. It's just how you find your way around them, just like a traffic jam.
Nancy McClelland: So the [00:46:00] the tech ecosystem, compared to the world of automotive versus the world of bookkeeping, would you say those were all really different from one another or really similar to one another in terms of the being a woman in, um, a male dominated field or, or feeling like your voice mattered?
Judy McCarthy: Uh, well, there were different times, right? So again.
Nancy McClelland: That's a really good.
Judy McCarthy: Point. So, um, [00:46:30] things were a lot different then. But I want to say, honestly, like the tech profession, it's it's very welcoming. Um, I've never met any of my male counterparts in, in this profession that I didn't feel had respect for me as an equal. So I'm really grateful for that. And I would encourage any woman that considers going into tech, don't be afraid. Don't think of it as a as a male dominated profession, even though it is. They they [00:47:00] want you there. They want talent. It doesn't matter if you're male, female, black, white, Asian, gay, straight. It doesn't matter what you are. I mean, people nowadays, especially in technology, we are just very welcoming. Um, that is fantastic.
Nancy McClelland: I'm so relieved to hear you say that.
Questian Telka: What do you feel like your presence as a female founder helps bring to the next generation of accounting technology?
Judy McCarthy: Well, [00:47:30] I just I hope my presence shows the next generation, um, that their passions, their ideas, their creativity, um, that you belong here. Um. And I want them.
Nancy McClelland: You just gave me shivers. I love that. That is like. That's such a that's such a guiding principle for us with this whole podcast, which she counts is is, you know, you're not alone and you have a voice. You deserve to be heard. We want you, hear you. Yeah, you belong here. [00:48:00] So I love the idea that, yeah, I want you to be that inspiration for folks and for women in technology, too.
Judy McCarthy: Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: And look.
Judy McCarthy: What are your here? Your fears. I mean, don't, uh, don't let anything. Don't let anything or anyone that's important, anything or anyone hold you back. Um, whether it be parents, partners, other people that you talk to. Because sometimes you'll talk to one person that says, hey, that's not a great idea, but you [00:48:30] know what? Just let it go and just go to the next person. If you've got 20 people tell you that's not a great idea, that's one thing. Um, but I actually have somebody that, uh, worked for me, and she came to work, and she said that in her last job, somebody told her she had no personality and I was appalled.
Nancy McClelland: What a crappy thing to tell someone.
Judy McCarthy: Can you imagine? You're rude. Yeah, and she's one of the most amazing people I've ever met. So don't let. Don't let people beat you down. [00:49:00] Don't let anybody beat you down. Um, you know what? Just have the courage and just go for what it is that you want. Go for what you're always saying.
Nancy McClelland: Do it anyway. It's, um. Rather than saying, don't be afraid, be like, no, you can be afraid. These things are scary. But don't let like you're saying, don't let those fears be a barrier. Don't let those fears hold you back.
Judy McCarthy: Yeah. And I have to say that I've. I've been the kind of person that is never [00:49:30] afraid to try. Because the thought of regret of the what would have beens really, really scares me. So I don't ever want to regret that I did or did not do anything in my life.
Nancy McClelland: Gotta be a bigger fear out there. The fear of regret being. Yeah. Bigger than. Oh, wow. That. Yeah, that reminds me of a Dolly Parton quote, but I can't remember the exact quote, so I have to get it back to you on Dolly in the show notes. Yeah, you and Dolly are practically the same person. [00:50:00] Yeah, it's it's the hair. It's the hair. Definitely. Yeah. Well, we know from our relationships with with sponsors, um, and from all the beta testing that question and I have both done to presentations and webinars for vendors that developing strong relationships with tech partners is part integration strategy and part collaborative development. Or even like so far as building a [00:50:30] support infrastructure. I mean, question, you and I have talked about that a lot.
Questian Telka: Yeah, yeah, it's I think that it it shows Judy's story really shows like the collaboration. It's a good example of of collaboration between firms apps, people and that all kind of, I guess you would say creates an effect or a ripple effect to, um, have better tools and make the profession [00:51:00] stronger overall.
Nancy McClelland: It really is a ripple effect, I totally agree. Yeah.
Questian Telka: Yeah. And, Judy, from your perspective as both a former firm owner and now a tech founder, what does a great partnership between an app and a bookkeeping firm really look like in practice? I mean, I think you kind of touched on some of it already, but I would love to hear your answer to that.
Judy McCarthy: That's another great, really, really great question. So, you know, [00:51:30] uh, kind of a truly great partnership. Um, whether it's personal or professional, it always is going to rely on honesty, honesty, respect, trust and genuine understanding. Right. So we love our partners. And again that's what we call our customers. We call them partners because we want to partner with them because we're building for them. Right. We want the firms that are willing to, you know, if we reach out, we're asking for feedback or those ones. As I mentioned, [00:52:00] we have the feature suggestion link. People are like, oh, we don't want to bother, you know, we love it. We love.
Nancy McClelland: Being bothered.
Judy McCarthy: Yeah.
Questian Telka: You like listening, like you said, listening. Right?
Judy McCarthy: The people that want to beta test a new features. But the important thing is I honestly think it's those firms that respect us, but they really want to, you know, they respect us. They respect the boundaries. Right. There have been I have some firms that, you know, every time some little thing goes wrong, they're emailing [00:52:30] me and it's like, you know, you're not going to get the best support from me because I'm probably not going to read that email for eight hours. Versus if you go to our customer support team, they're going to answer it. And I'm a pleaser, so I'm always going to respond to those emails and I'm going to be, you know, 16 hours later, just responding to customer emails. Um, but really just, you know, understanding some boundaries, but also not being afraid to meet with us, like, we're not always trying to sell you something. I think that's really important for people to know. If a, if your account [00:53:00] manager reaches out to you or somebody from a product team or even somebody like me, if I reach out to you to talk about your experience with Client Hub, I'm not trying to sell you anything. You're already a partner. Like I want to understand what else can we do for you?
Nancy McClelland: Um.
Judy McCarthy: In turn, a great partner is somebody who is going to use our product again, make those feature suggestions, work with us on beta beta testing. They're going to refer us. They're going to mention [00:53:30] us in social media. They're going to represent us even we've had partners that have represented us at conferences, worked our booth.
Nancy McClelland: Um, I love that. I actually used to do that with my with my old tax software back in the day when they were, you know, before they got acquired by CCH, uh, Wolters Kluwer. Uh, I would go to like, AICPA engage and I would work their booth and just be like, look, you can trust me. I'm just a user of the product. Like, I, you know, I love doing that. I love that you guys have people [00:54:00] doing that at your booth as well. I just think that's so effective because like, there's nobody like with a CPA, there's nobody who can sell somebody on the value of that, like somebody who is actually a member who wants to use it. So yeah, that's super smart, Judy.
Judy McCarthy: And that was for me. It was my first kind of dabble into tech. I actually, uh, I wrote a proposal, uh, back in the days I used PayCycle as my payroll software. And I said, hey, listen, I want to go to a conference. I can't really [00:54:30] afford to go to this conference, but, hey, I could work your booth if you'll pay my way. And. And they did. They said, great. Yeah, you can work our booth. And it just worked out amazing for me. And and again, it kind of propelled me into working and working and getting to know people in the tech space. But in turn, we also want to promote them and we want them involved in our community. Client hub is big into community. We have our, of course, our Facebook group. We have our bi weekly happy hours, we do our customer spotlights and [00:55:00] and we want to promote our happy hour.
Nancy McClelland: And I got distracted.
Judy McCarthy: And it can be happy hours. So we do a biweekly meeting. Um, it's for users of our product. Whether you're brand new to Client Hub or you've been with us forever and we just get together for an hour every other Friday, we have what we call a kickoff topic, um, which is usually related to one of our recent blog articles or something else, you know, going on, uh, current events in the accounting profession. And I just [00:55:30] kind of let the conversation take its own way organically with our with our customers. And we do some great networking. We laugh, we have, we have fun, and it usually goes over an hour. But it's just it's just kind of a way to unwind that.
Nancy McClelland: I think that's a great example to listeners. Like, what should we expect from others when we're building something together? You know, whether that's like technology or a firm or, I don't know, podcast, I think more happy Hours should definitely be planning. [00:56:00]
Questian Telka: I like this idea.
Judy McCarthy: I'd love to do in person. Happy hours. I could go get a little dicey, but, um, but yeah, it's it's a great experience for our customers. And again, I'll go away normally from a Friday happy hour with a list of things that I send over to my product team and say, hey, I had happy hour this week. Um, I unveil new features that are coming out. So people that do, um, you know, attend our happy hour events. They get the opportunity to see things before anybody else will see them, and they'll give us great feedback. And [00:56:30] I think it's just it's it has to be a two way relationship with your partners. So don't be afraid. If you if you have a tech that you really, really love, like reach out and say, hey, listen, I love you. I'd like to know how can I better promote you? How can you promote me? How can we work together? What I can tell you not to be is that person. That all you ever do is complain to customer support like that? You know you. It's not helpful, right? No, no. And there's going to be a sticky note up on somebody's desk saying, [00:57:00] hey, if you get a message from this person.
Questian Telka: Is that what happens? Oh well.
Judy McCarthy: No.
Questian Telka: Before we close.
Questian Telka: Things out and wrap up, Judy, what would you tell the woman who's dreaming of building something new but isn't sure that she can? You know, what have you learned about timing, courage, and all the things that you need as a woman founder to, um, you know, help us, um, [00:57:30] get to the point where we feel comfortable building something new.
Judy McCarthy: Run! No! Run! Stop! No! Sometimes I feel, you know, sometimes you feel like that.
Nancy McClelland: Like it this way. For the woman listening. For the woman who's listening, who has an idea she can't shake. Okay. But doesn't feel ready. Who is decided not to run away? What is the one piece of advice that you wish someone had given you before you built Client Hub? I feel [00:58:00] like that's a good angle on that.
Judy McCarthy: Well, I think I kind of like I kind of, you know, talked about that with, with Laura Redmond, like, you're gonna you're never going to feel fully ready. It's not never going to be perfect. Um, you need patience. You need to understand, especially if you're doing something to bring to market a lot of patients. You're in it for the long run. Um, so there's kind of that expectation, um, you know, commit. So you also want to make [00:58:30] a commitment like a podcast. I know I've had people say, Judy, you should do a podcast. I'm like, that's too big of a commitment.
Nancy McClelland: No talk about run. Come on.
Questian Telka: Nancy.
Nancy McClelland: Just kidding.
Judy McCarthy: So one thing I think embrace every day is a new day. Um, embrace every day as an opportunity to learn, teach, inspire, most importantly, laugh like I am. Uh, yeah. I don't even know why I wasn't voted class clown. Right? Because for me, like, I like to joke about [00:59:00] everything, but I love to laugh and I love to have fun and and even some of the most serious topics. So maybe don't take yourself so seriously. Like, roll with it. Um, let it kind of grow organically. Um, you know, I know a lot of people talk about they think about software companies. You need, you know, you need investors. You need, you know, marketing company like you don't. You can you can literally. I mean, it is a big a big investment, right? Because you're going [00:59:30] to be paying developers and and people eventually to market. Um, but just get started. Don't be afraid. Just get started. Start those conversations with it anyway. Do it. The idea. Don't be afraid to fail. Like I always say, don't be afraid to fail. It's those badges of honor that we wear, and we should be proud of them. Because failure means that you tried. Yeah.
Questian Telka: Yeah. Getting started, I think is, uh, is is such an important piece of advice and hard [01:00:00] for a lot of people. It's just like all the ideas are there, and it's like, if you've just got to make yourself take the steps to kind of get started and see where it goes. So, um, this has just been thank you, Judy, for being here. This has been an incredible conversation. I was so excited because like I said, I have had, um, different iterations of a thousand ideas going on in my mind for, you know, I'm a serial entrepreneur at heart. So.
Nancy McClelland: Like, how can I.
Questian Telka: Take this into the next, you know, [01:00:30] into into a different area. And so it's been really great and I've really learned a lot.
Judy McCarthy: Yeah. Patience. And again, I mean, don't ever take yourself too seriously. I don't I don't take anybody too seriously. I just and sometimes it, sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad. Sometimes I have to be serious. And it drives me absolutely nuts to have to be serious. Um, you know, when I walk into the AICPA offices in New York and everybody looks really stuffy, and I.
Nancy McClelland: Although, [01:01:00]okay, wait a minute, you think of people at AICPA as being really buttoned up. And then just a couple of weeks ago, I was presenting at the AICPA Global Women's Leadership Summit, and they had me lead a group of over 500 people, 500, mostly women. I dressed up in an 80s like aerobics costume and did an aerobics like a fake jazzercise to She Works [01:01:30] Hard for the Money by Donna Summer, and literally everyone in that room stood up and danced. So I have to say I. They need an excuse.
Questian Telka: To let loose, that's all.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah, absolutely.
Judy McCarthy: Absolutely.
Nancy McClelland: My perspective on the buttoned up, on the buttoned up.
Judy McCarthy: And by the way, that's a great comment. That's a great conference.
Nancy McClelland: It is a great conference. I as a matter of fact, they have invited She Counts to come and do a live recording their next year. So we're really excited about that. Yeah.
Questian Telka: We can't wait. So [01:02:00] as we wrap up, we want to ask our listeners to follow the She Counts Podcast LinkedIn page and to join in on the conversation by sharing under the episode when there's no app for what you need. Have you ever come up with an idea for a new app, and if so, what has prevented you from pursuing it? And if you have pursued it, share that with us as well.
Judy McCarthy: Yeah, yeah. And if you want to bounce the idea off me, feel free to reach out. Oh, I love that.
Questian Telka: I do too. That's [01:02:30] great. Judy.
Nancy McClelland: And before we sign off, I want to leave you with a quote by Rear Admiral Grace Hopper, the developer of the first compiler for a computer programing language. I had a really fun time going down a rabbit hole learning all about her. She said humans are allergic to change. They love to say we've always done it this way. I try to fight that. And as today's conversation reminds us, we don't have to bend ourselves around broken systems. [01:03:00] Women like Judy show us that we can just build better ones instead.
Questian Telka: Thank you for being here with us on She Counts, the Real Talk podcast for women in accounting.
Nancy McClelland: If something in today's episode hit home for you, well, good, because that is exactly why we're doing this.
Questian Telka: So you feel seen, heard, and never alone.
Nancy McClelland: Remember that you can get CPE credit for listening at earmarked App links to that, as well as how to learn more about our sponsors, solutions and [01:03:30] any other resource will be in the show notes. Along with that Dolly Parton quote. Once I look it up.
Questian Telka: And please remember, subscribe as well as leave us a review because it helps other people find the podcast. Also, please share with another woman in accounting if you feel that she needs to hear it.
Nancy McClelland: Too many thanks again to our wonderful guest, Judy McCarthy! Yay! We are so grateful for the time that you took to be with us today, and the knowledge and [01:04:00] insight that you shared.
Judy McCarthy: And thank you both for having me. You are both an inspiration to women in accounting. So I was just it was a pleasure for me to be here.
Questian Telka: Thank you,
Nancy McClelland: Thank you.
Judy McCarthy: Thanks.
Questian Telka: We'll see everyone again in two weeks.
Nancy McClelland: Bye bye.