Attention: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!
Nancy McClelland: Welcome to She Counts the Real Talk podcast for Women in Accounting. We're your hosts, Nancy Mccleland.
Misty Megia: And I'm Misty Megia sitting in for the fantastic Questian Telka.
Nancy McClelland: And every episode we're digging into the real experiences, challenges and unspoken truths of life in this profession.
Misty Megia: Because if you've ever felt [00:00:30] like you've been alone, know that you are not, and you should never be in a space where you feel like the solo voice.
Nancy McClelland: Special thanks to our season three sponsors Bill, Relay and Carbon. We are so grateful to them for helping us bring these conversations to life, enabling us to share out loud what everyone's thinking but no one's saying. Learn more about them on our sponsors page at she dot show.
Misty Megia: I remember [00:01:00] that you can get CPE from earmark.com and please follow. She counts everywhere possible. Linkedin. Youtube. Follow follow follow. These women are incredible and the stories that are shared here are unlike any other space.
Nancy McClelland: And I'm just going to mention that that's earmarked, not earmarked.com, just so we're clear on that one. Um, today is the third and final episode in our Curtain Call series, and joining me in the studio [00:01:30] for a hot take is a very special guest. Listeners have met her before. Our friend Misty Mejia, founder of the Theater of Public Speaking. Welcome back to She Counts Misty.
Misty Megia: I'm so excited to be here. This is going to be fun.
Nancy McClelland: Absolutely.
Misty Megia: Bring it on. Bring it on.
Nancy McClelland: All right. Well, you were actually on site with me when I recorded all six of these conversations. And long before that, you were shepherding these women through the work that eventually brought them to curtain call. So it seemed [00:02:00] especially fitting to me to have you here as we wrap up the series.
Misty Megia: Oh well, thank you. Thank you for being a part of the journey on every step.
Nancy McClelland: I was quite intentional in choosing the theme for these last two conversations, because Misty, the last time that you were on She Counts, we talked about what it means to unmute yourself. And during that conversation, you had said that although we can learn from other people and watch what works for them, we have to figure [00:02:30] out how to make it ours because otherwise we can get so caught up in how someone else shows up that we lose our own voice, which is what our guests are exploring today. Because once you've unmuted yourself, there's another question, which is how do you know the voice coming out is actually yours?
Misty Megia: Yeah. And it's a hard thing to discover. I think it takes a lot of practice because first you are modeling what you see until [00:03:00] you go, oh, wait, that's not me. And you start to shift. And that shift is where that magic is of like, oh, there I am.
Nancy McClelland: I found myself, it's a little bit, I think like, um, you know, artists will imitate the paintings. They'll paint replicas of paintings of the masters until they determine their own style.
Misty Megia: Yeah, absolutely.
Nancy McClelland: Well, our two guests, Candy Bello and Emily Gray, explore that question from, [00:03:30] not surprisingly, completely different directions. Candy is a certified fraud examiners who has spent her career investigating deception. Bom bom. But the fraud that she's talking about in this conversation is the one that she began recognizing in herself the ways she had learned to become a chameleon, Adapting herself to the people around her so she could feel safe and accepted and loved.
Misty Megia: One [00:04:00] woman really took a journey of trying to figure out who she was. Once she stopped trying to fit into everybody else's expectations. And the other had to discover that her unique voice was exactly what her mission needed.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah, because Emily's story is almost the inverse of Candy's. She knew exactly what she cared about. She'd spent years helping to build Spike's K9 fund and believed so [00:04:30] deeply in its mission. But when she suddenly had to become the person who was publicly carrying that mission, she realized she couldn't. She couldn't just imitate or inherit the voice of the gifted leader who had done it before her. So let's start with Candy and what she calls the fraud within. I am very excited to welcome back to the show, Candy Bellau, [00:05:00] who the last time she was here, talked to us about pricing and women when they mark themselves down. Um, and has a very different topic to share with us today. Candy is one of my very favorite people. I absolutely adore her. And we're here at the theater of Public Speaking Advanced Retreat, where she has been rehearsing her keynote for a couple of days and is going to be delivering it in just an hour or two here. Right. How are you feeling about that?
Candy Bellau: I was [00:05:30] feeling good until right now. I'm getting nervous accidentally. Like built her up. Oh my gosh.
Nancy McClelland: Uh, you're.
Candy Bellau: Gonna you're gonna.
Nancy McClelland: Kick ass. You're gonna. It's. Yeah, you're gonna knock em dead. Break a leg. Um, Candy, as our listeners know, is the co-host of one of our very favorite podcasts, unbalanced with Sam Halpern, but that is not what she's here to talk to us about today. Candy, I would like to start with [00:06:00] the fact that you are a certified fraud examiners, which is a little bit different than I think, uh, some of our audience. You know, most of us are, um, bookkeepers, CPAs, IAS you're a CFA. Um, tell us a little bit about that and how it relates to the keynote that you're going to be giving later today.
Candy Bellau: Sure. Um, so certified fraud examiners. Um, I got into that as I was an accountant and [00:06:30] I kept uncovering fraud and I did not know there was a proper way to investigate. And after becoming a fraud examiner, after speaking to Dawn Brolin. Oh, that.
Nancy McClelland: Was because of Dawn.
Candy Bellau: Dawn Brolin and my friend Nicole Landau.
Nancy McClelland: I love.
Candy Bellau: That both. Dawn was one.
Nancy McClelland: Of our earliest guests on the on the podcast.
Candy Bellau: That was a great episode.
Nancy McClelland: Great episode.
Candy Bellau: But Don urged me to do it. And within three months of speaking to her, I was a fraud examiner.
Nancy McClelland: Wow. Really?
Candy Bellau: Yes.
Nancy McClelland: Oh [00:07:00] my gosh.
Candy Bellau: She said to me, just do it. And I did. And I uncovered or discovered that the way I had been doing investigations for years was not exactly the right way to do things.
Nancy McClelland: Okay. Well, I didn't know there was a right and a wrong way.
Candy Bellau: I did not know that either. And apparently, the way you interview people, there's a certain way you should and shouldn't do it. And while I had been successful and the people I had investigated went to jail and prosecuted and.
Nancy McClelland: Wow.
Candy Bellau: Everything, apparently [00:07:30] my tactics wouldn't be approved.
Nancy McClelland: Oh I see.
Candy Bellau: Based on my what I learned. All right. And not that I didn't do anything illegal, but not exactly according to the rules. So now I'm bound by the rules of the A, C, F and I need to do things properly. And I also became a private investigator.
Nancy McClelland: So oh my gosh, I totally wish I had brought, you know, in, in fabulous ladies of fitness. [00:08:00] Private eyes is oh our choreographies. I wish I had brought my, my raincoat and um, oh, it's a hilarious choreography. I'm going to teach it to you sometime. We're going to do it at a conference. It's going to be so much fun. Oh my God, that's right. You're a P.I..
Candy Bellau: So as a P.I., I'm also have another set of rules I have to follow.
Nancy McClelland: Okay.
Candy Bellau: And and one of those things is I think women naturally. I always called myself a stalker. And I think that we naturally, [00:08:30] if we need to uncover something, we will find out, you know, if like, I think he's doing something, it's like, you know, oh, I.
Nancy McClelland: Know exactly what's.
Candy Bellau: Going on. We know we can investigate anybody. All right. We know how to do it. Well, private investigators are exempt from stock or loss. So now I'm no longer.
Nancy McClelland: You actually get to be a stalker without being a stalker.
Candy Bellau: A stalker now I'm investigating.
Nancy McClelland: Aha!
Candy Bellau: However, I have a code of ethics on how I can investigate, which does not include how I used to do it.
Nancy McClelland: All right. [00:09:00]
Candy Bellau: So. But.
Nancy McClelland: So you actually learned a lot both, uh, before you became a certified fraud examiners and before you came, a private investigator that those were two different rounds of paths that you took and you're like, okay, can't do it the way I used to doing it the right way now. And it's a little bit, I don't know if weird is the right word, but like, I wasn't doing any of those things naturally on my own. And it looks like you were, you may not have been doing [00:09:30] it the quote unquote right way, but you're a natural. Well.
Candy Bellau: And it's interesting to me, when I speak to other accounting professionals, I say, well, how much fraud have you found? And I'm always astounded when somebody like, I've never found fraud.
Nancy McClelland: And I have, unfortunately.
Candy Bellau: And that seems to me like a right answer, right. Like, because I've never I was never prior to becoming a CFA, I was never brought in to [00:10:00] look for fraud. Okay. I was brought in to help the company to figure out what cash flow problems, to clean up the books, to just figure out what's going on with the company, what should they do, what direction. So I was going in holistically, right?
Nancy McClelland: But I mean, that's how I've accidentally discovered fraud. It's just like, oh, well, these numbers aren't adding up. And so you start asking questions and when you ask questions and they stop responding, and then they disappear. Mhm. And you're like, okay, [00:10:30] I think we unearthed something here. And, um, yeah, it's unfortunate, but true.
Candy Bellau: It's like you start to feel and jumping ahead that that's kind of. The. The life I lived pushed me to. I. I'm realizing it now pushed me to this line of work. Okay. Because of circumstances in my life.
Nancy McClelland: That you told us about a little bit on the last time that you were on the podcast that you, you were kind [00:11:00] of hiding your spending, um, from the other people in your life and living a life that maybe looked a little richer than it was.
Candy Bellau: Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes, I hid things, um, from my now spouse. He forgave me. Thank goodness. Um, yeah. Like you do things to protect yourself even when you know better. Yeah. And sometimes when you get into that, um, now the only person I stole from is myself. I stole from my retirement accounts, from [00:11:30] my savings accounts instead of fixing the problem and I until I depleted them, then I had to say something. Um, because I wasn't going to steal from somebody else, but I could take from me.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Candy Bellau: Um, but yeah, like living a lie.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. And looking like you were wildly financially successful and you knew the truth. Yes. So you were telling me that you felt like you were a fraud? Mhm.
Candy Bellau: And [00:12:00] I find it interesting that I'm a fraud fighter when I feel myself like a fraud. Yeah. And I wonder if that's how I can see it and sense it and know it right away. Because I know what that looks like.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. You know what it felt like, even. You know what? Inside what that felt like. Yeah. And so you're maybe more natural at spotting it than the rest of us.
Candy Bellau: I, I feel like, and I feel like, um, and, and also, if [00:12:30] you have some sort of childhood trauma, you learn from a very young age to read the room and the things you need to do to protect yourself. And it's almost like you become a chameleon to stay safe.
Nancy McClelland: Wow.
Candy Bellau: And staying safe means knowing what's going on. It's looking at the people in the room, finding out who's safe, who's not looking at, you know, the saying, hurt people, hurt people. [00:13:00] Okay, well, if this is going on, what's going on behind the scenes, what's happening? You know.
Nancy McClelland: That is a really great quote. Hurt people, hurt people that yeah, I. Thanks for reminding me of that one.
Candy Bellau: And, and also, unfortunately, I had a lot of addiction in people in my life. So I was able to spot when somebody was trying to hide addictions. So and those are all signs because if somebody has an addiction, well, they have to [00:13:30] feed it somehow. Yeah. And, you know, maybe their paycheck isn't enough. So they have to find another source for it. But just seeing these other things, you can see where the potential is. You can see from their behaviors because you learn as a child these things that say, this is unsafe, this isn't the truth, you know, and you may still pretend and adapt to survive it, but you still know, yes, this isn't okay and this isn't right. And I know something [00:14:00] bad's happening here. And I think that was always the thing. I would go into an organization and after speaking to the owners and the employees and just observing the culture, I could immediately say, okay, this is ripe for fraud.
Nancy McClelland: Yes.
Candy Bellau: And then observing the people.
Nancy McClelland: As a matter of fact, that so that point that you made, there was something I learned from you. The first time I saw you spoke. You gave a presentation a few years ago at [00:14:30] scaling new heights on fraud. And it was on. Um, and, and it, it definitely aligned very much with the one fraud course that I took when I was getting my master's, uh, that the conditions, when the conditions are right for fraud, then you start looking for the actual fraud. Whereas if the conditions don't exist, you actually don't look as hard, right? Like you don't, it's very unlikely that you're going to find it because it's the conditions that is [00:15:00] it fair to say the conditions cause fraud to some extent.
Candy Bellau: Adds to it. So there's the fraud triangle. But then there's something that, um gentleman by the name of Robert Barry, that audit guy, he's phenomenal. And he came up with this concept of the three C's. And these are things that are within our control to help an organization help prevent fraud, which is controls which yes, we need controls, but they actually need to you need to do them right, not just write them down in a book and say, this is what we.
Nancy McClelland: Do [00:15:30] is super.
Candy Bellau: Classy or, you know, somebody's overriding them or the manager doesn't.
Nancy McClelland: Do like we have a policy that we don't share passwords, but we don't pay attention to that. Exactly. Okay.
Candy Bellau: Exactly. And then there's the issue of compensation. Are people being compensated properly? Because if they're not, they're going to find a way to compensate them.
Nancy McClelland: Because they're going to be, uh, feeling resentful, feeling like they're worth more and they're entitled to it. Yeah. So it's okay. It's not really fraud.
Candy Bellau: So are they stretching their day for overtime, [00:16:00] or are they maybe saying, you know what? They're not paying me what I'm worth. They pay me 80%, I'll give 80%. So there's all different ways it can happen.
Nancy McClelland: Or actually, can I tell you my you know, now that you're saying this, I realize I have I have had a fraudulent experience in my life that I have committed. I stole so many Post-it notes. I just can't even tell you how I still might have Post-it notes from back when I raided the office supplies cabinet because I was so mad [00:16:30] at them, and I was. The only way that I could get back at them was to take Post-it notes. Well, I'm also a little bit obsessed with post-it notes.
Candy Bellau: It's mild, you know, like so, but they're not going to go bankrupt. However, if you are angry, how many other people are angry and what were they taking?
Nancy McClelland: Oh gosh, that's a good point.
Candy Bellau: Right? So it couldn't have just been you that was hurting or was upset.
Nancy McClelland: You're right.
Candy Bellau: There's other people. And maybe post-its weren't enough to fill that need of the resentment.
Nancy McClelland: Well, you know, they maybe they didn't like post-it [00:17:00] notes as much as I like Post-it notes. It's certainly possible.
Candy Bellau: Pens or toilet paper. You know, it could be anything, but, um, you know, after that, then there's also something culture, right? So you've got controls, compensation and culture and walking in if people aren't safe. And as a matter of fact, when I was on the plane coming here, this gentleman was sitting next to me and he said, can I just tell you something really quickly. [00:17:30] And I was like, yeah, sure. What is it? He goes, I was on vacation and I have a house in Mexico. So clearly I thought of you. And he said I was doing some work. And the people that were coming to do the work got delayed, and I needed to stay two more days to get the work finished, because I don't go there very often and I needed to get this work done.
Nancy McClelland: Okay.
Candy Bellau: And I told my wife, and she goes, just call in sick. You have you've. He said he never, ever, ever took sick time. And he had like 300 hours of PTO. And his wife said, just you've got to get this finished. [00:18:00] Just call in sick. He called in and he said, you know, I have a really good relationship with my boss. I told him the truth and I said.
Nancy McClelland: He didn't call in sick. He called in, I need two days off.
Candy Bellau: He said, can I take two days PTO? Yeah, I've got to get this done. I'm in Mexico. I don't know when I can get back and I have these guys lined up. It got delayed, but I need two more days. I haven't I've been taken off in years.
Nancy McClelland: Right.
Candy Bellau: And his boss said no. What said you were scheduled to come back? You [00:18:30] can't just change your vacations like that. You need to figure it out and come back. This is your problem. You need to come back. And he said, you know, this is the first time.
Nancy McClelland: Now he's going to call in sick because he's gonna lie because he took the high road. He was honest and he got penalized for honesty. There's your culture.
Candy Bellau: There's your culture problem.
Nancy McClelland: Wow.
Candy Bellau: So I said to him, you know, as a matter of fact, this is something that I talk about. I said, because effectively I started saying, this is how you feel now, right? And this is what you're [00:19:00] going to do. And he goes, yeah, yeah. I said, well, let's try to work through this. Let's take it from the side of your manager.
Nancy McClelland: Why am I telling you this story on the plane in the first place?
Candy Bellau: He just said he was boiling up and he needed to talk to somebody.
Nancy McClelland: Wow. Candy, you must have been given a vibes of safety.
Candy Bellau: I don't know, because I had my earbuds on and.
Nancy McClelland: I was trying to be like, don't.
Candy Bellau: Talk to.
Nancy McClelland: Me.
Candy Bellau: But he's like, I really need to talk to somebody.
Nancy McClelland: Wow. So that's amazing. It was good guy.
Candy Bellau: Yeah. And, you know, and then I said to him, okay, well, let's try to look at it from the point of your manager. [00:19:30] Right. And I said, now, you told him you were taking off for this. And now is it fair to everybody else that he made an exception for you because you're a good employee? Does he have to do that for everybody now?
Nancy McClelland: Right.
Candy Bellau: And I said, I'm not justifying any of this by.
Nancy McClelland: Helping him be intentional about process.
Candy Bellau: And I said, and you have to consider how you're going to go back and deal with this. Yeah. I said, because if you're going to go back and be angry and not give your all or start calling [00:20:00] in sick because you've never done that in your life, I said, where is that going to get you?
Nancy McClelland: Right.
Candy Bellau: And I said, so I need you to take some time to just digest this before you react. Don't. I said, it may be worthy of you having a conversation with your boss. Right. When you're ready, because clearly you're not. So but I want you to look at it from all angles and then consider your next move. And he said, you know, my wife yelled at me, I told you to call in sick. And I go, you know why? And he said, why I go. She had already learned this lesson.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah, she had the trauma. Yeah. You were talking about she has that trauma and [00:20:30] she's. Oh my gosh. So this fits in perfectly with the keynote that you're giving, uh, for the, the theater of public speaking advanced retreat on the fraud within. Yes. Like, how does this fraud take that next step? Or is it a next step? Is it the foundation? Tell us about what the fraud within means in the context of everything. We've just learned, something.
Candy Bellau: I've personally been working on. And, [00:21:00] um, if you've ever seen the movie The Runaway Bride, Julia Roberts and Richard Gere, I know that's not their character's name, but Richard Gere is talking to all the men she was engaged to and said, what was her favorite breakfast? And they would say, oh, poached eggs just like me. And he'd go to the next one. What was her favorite breakfast? Scrambled eggs, just like me.
Nancy McClelland: Oh.
Candy Bellau: And go to the next one. Oh, she liked it over easy. Just like me.
Nancy McClelland: Wow.
Candy Bellau: And when that I heard that, it triggered me.
Nancy McClelland: Because she was the chameleon that you were when you were a child, I.
Candy Bellau: And [00:21:30] I'm still. Because that's safer and that's accepting and it doesn't make waves. So when somebody comes over and, you know, I'm in a situation, um, let's say in a relationship and I had relationships with, I don't know who they were dating because I just became them. Right? You know.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, I.
Candy Bellau: Love.
Nancy McClelland: Football. I love.
Candy Bellau: Football too.
Nancy McClelland: You were telling me about, um, Christa came up to you and said when she first met you [00:22:00] at Abbey camp.
Candy Bellau: She had an hour long conversation with me about interior design, and I told her how much I loved it. I do not love interior design, nor am I any good at it.
Nancy McClelland: Why were you telling her?
Candy Bellau: Because I wanted her to like me.
Nancy McClelland: Wow. So that's part of the chameleon. That's the fraud within. Yes. And so what can we do about it?
Candy Bellau: So I think one of the things I've been working on is working between being honest and still being authentic to myself, which I believe I'm a kind [00:22:30] person. So being honest doesn't mean saying something mean because that's how I feel and that's really my truth, you know? So I'm not going to say, wow, that's a really ugly baby.
Nancy McClelland: Even if it maybe even if it is right. So.
Candy Bellau: You know, I started feeling like, well, maybe being authentic means always saying the truth. And I think that is important.
Nancy McClelland: That's something my therapist and I have actually worked on. I don't know if I've told you she's going to be on this on the show. Yes. I'm actually she had to, she had to, um, [00:23:00] like check with a bunch of people to make sure that that didn't break any like ethical rules or whatever. But she, she got the go ahead. So I don't remember, I don't know when we're going to start recording with her, but in a couple of months, she's definitely going to be on the show. So I'm excited about that. Um, but, uh, she actually has helped me because I think, um, I can accidentally be mean because honesty is so important to me and I, and I believe that it's a sign of respect to others to share what you really think. Yeah. And she [00:23:30] has been working with me, among other things, to realize that that is not the only way to show love and respect and that keeping it from people can also be a sign of love and respect. And so recognizing how to be honest and the words that you use, and whether it's actually useful information to the person if they can do anything with it. My brother recently, um, shared with me that my [00:24:00] father had said something really bad about me behind my back and it was super hurtful. Um, I was really, really upset about it.
Nancy McClelland: Um, and I feel completely comfortable talking about it on this podcast because no one in my family cares at all about this podcast or that's why I speak so freely online. They don't listen to it at all, but I wish they would listen to it because I would love for them to know how much it hurt me. Um, and my brother was trying to be kind. My brother was trying to be kind to his sister or his wife. My sister [00:24:30] in law was like, you owe it to Nancy. And we have a good relationship, my brother and I, you owe it to Nancy. She needs to know that your dad's saying these things about her behind her back. And so he felt like it was a sign of respect and love. Yeah. There's nothing I can do with this information. It turns out the thing that he told me about, there's no point in me going to my father or his girlfriend about it. There's no point in sharing with them that I am hurt and upset. And so now I'm just sitting here with this piece of information that I can't do anything [00:25:00] with. So was it really kind of my brother to tell me the truth or not? And I think that that's a little bit of a struggle.
Candy Bellau: Yeah, it really is. It's you know, I do You feel like I am authentically kind, but that doesn't mean I have to lie.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Candy Bellau: You know, but maybe I can omit.
Nancy McClelland: Right? You know, and. Well, and we have to figure out where those lines are, right. Like, can you [00:25:30] can you tell the truth in a gentler way? Yes.
Candy Bellau: And that's, you know, and it also the setting, you know, the culture. But even like, you know, you look at we're here at this retreat and people are speaking and they're relying on us to give feedback.
Nancy McClelland: Yes.
Candy Bellau: How do you give feedback and do it in a way that people realize you're doing this because you want them to succeed?
Nancy McClelland: Yes.
Candy Bellau: You want them and you're seeing things that you know [00:26:00] may not come out right on stage, or that what you're saying needs could be changed, you could move it like this, or I don't understand, is.
Nancy McClelland: That.
Candy Bellau: Really hard.
Nancy McClelland: For you as someone who always wants to make people like you. And this history of being a chameleon and, and, and the fraud within that you call it, is it hard for you to, um, my friend Valerie texted me the other day and she said, I need some help with this submission. And I was in a real hurry and I was like, [00:26:30] I can, I can give you advice, but I'm just going to like one, two, three, go to it. Please don't take it as being hypercritical. And she's like, Nancy, I know you're hypercritical. That's why I reached out to you. And I was like, that's amazing. She actually wants me to tell her yes. What I don't like about it and how it could be improved, which is the way that it is at the this retreat. Like they actually want the feedback, the way that you can be kind to them is to be truthful to them. Yes. But that's not going [00:27:00] to be the same situation in another context where maybe what being kind means. Yeah. So how do you figure out which of these things make you feel like a fraud? In which of these things are how a lot.
Candy Bellau: I find.
Nancy McClelland: It's complicated.
Candy Bellau: The issues are harder with people I love.
Nancy McClelland: Really.
Candy Bellau: You know, or with people that I want to love me, you know? And so like at work, I'm comfortable because I [00:27:30] get paid to give bad news. I get I used to go into to have to fire a whole bunch of people. Wow. That would be my job. And I was completely fine doing it, but I felt like I did it in a kind way. And but I didn't love these people. Right.
Nancy McClelland: And you weren't seeking their.
Candy Bellau: No, I still didn't want them to hurt. So I would talk to them about game plans and what we could do and strategies, but I was able to do my job. I am able to give very tough feedback to clients with [00:28:00] no issues, and I have come to love a lot of my clients I've had. I was just asked how long some of my clients are. Most of them are with me over a decade, So I have relationships where I'm comfortable saying safe things, but that doesn't mean with my siblings, right? Or and you know, my mom has passed now, but I wasn't able to say hard things to her ever, you know, and it would so I. And even with friends, friends now it's funny, I said, I've been going to music festivals [00:28:30] with my friends for decades. I don't like music festivals really. I just like being with my friends.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, and do they know that you don't like now? They do. Now they do. Because that's part of you going through and sort of cleaning up this historical.
Candy Bellau: And talking to them. And some of them were like, yeah, we know that, you know, and, but, and even I had a good friend of mine recently asked me to do something and I said, oh my gosh, that sounds wonderful. But I think I'm going to say, no, I don't think that's something I should go do right now. And she just said, thank you.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, [00:29:00] she.
Candy Bellau: Said, you always just say yes. And I never know if you really want to be there.
Nancy McClelland: Oh.
Candy Bellau: And she said, I really appreciate you saying no when you really weren't going to be fully present. And I just want to tell you, I'm proud of you.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, and it was so much.
Candy Bellau: So it's like these little things I've been noticing and people are picking up on it. People that know me well for a long time, they're like, I could see the change. Yeah. So proud of you. And it's like, I'm not this far off [00:29:30] person from who it is, but I don't always feel authentic.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Candy Bellau: And at least for the people that are important to me, I want to make sure I am.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. I'm so glad that you yet again, found your vulnerable self. I mean, this is one of the things I love about you. And, um, one of the things I know is part of this journey that you're making is to learn how to access that part of yourself. Yeah. Um, and be vulnerable and share these stories out loud. Because [00:30:00] when we do that, it makes other people feel less alone. Mhm. And it gives them permission to maybe start this journey themselves. I love how you've taken this world of being a fraud examiner and a P.I., and are now sort of turning it a little bit, um, to look at it through a different lens. Yeah. And talking about the fraud within, because I know that we've all, we've all desperately wanted to be in [00:30:30] the in crowd or be loved or be approved of. And, um, when we think about the controls and the culture and what's the other C.
Candy Bellau: Compensation.
Nancy McClelland: And the compensation, well, I don't know how to work that into the personal stuff, but maybe by the next time we have you on the show, you'll figure it out. Thank you so much again, Candy, for joining us on the She Counts podcast.
Candy Bellau: Love you.
Nancy McClelland: Thank you. I love you too. Big hug. Yay! Misty, [00:31:00] you and I knew Candy long before this keynote was finished. She and I were in our intermediate cohort together, and I know you watched her work through the story and eventually stand up at curtain call and share it with a room full of people. I'm curious, what did you see happening as she worked through it?
Misty Megia: For me, every piece of Candy's journey has [00:31:30] been. I feel like peeling off layers that don't fit her anymore.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, she would love that. She would love that saying. Yeah.
Misty Megia: She like, I remember her in her first round with us right in the intermediate round. She showed up in her car to do her final presentation. I want to say there might have been a hurricane happening.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. Yeah. It was like some horrible natural [00:32:00] disaster. And she was being evacuated. I forgot about that.
Misty Megia: And so she did her presentation in the car. And I will tell you, she sent me her deck beforehand. And so I ran her deck while she spoke. And to me, it's still one of those standout moments because it was all about the numbers that don't count. I was like, oh, it, it needs a stage. And this, this curtain call continues to up level [00:32:30] who she is and it just refining her voice in a beautiful, beautiful way. Like, I love that she leaned in the fraud. She did the Cinderella themes. It was really, really brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
Nancy McClelland: Something that hit me in my conversation with her was how ordinary some of her examples were. Like she mentioned going to music festivals for years when she doesn't actually like music Festivals or with [00:33:00] Krista. She had pretended to be interested in interior design because Krista loved it and then was like, no, I actually am not. I just wanted you to like me for it. I used to struggle with this myself. I remember, especially when I was in high school, like wanting so badly to fit in that I would lose myself because none of these little things, like they don't seem like a big deal on their own. I'd be like, what's the harm? And [00:33:30] yet you put them all together and you start to realize if you're always adjusting yourself to the person who's in front of you, like, how do you even know where those little adjustments you're making? And, and you as a human, where do you begin?
Misty Megia: Yeah. I feel that sometimes being a chameleon feels safe.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Misty Megia: And so you go, okay, if I like what they like, then I'm putting myself in a really safe space. On [00:34:00] top of that, though, we we all desperately want to just connect with each other. We want to belong. And that sense of belonging. We're afraid that if we don't like the same things, all of a sudden we don't have a place to belong anymore.
Nancy McClelland: Totally. It's isolating.
Misty Megia: Yeah. I feel like, though, if you're in the right group, you're loved for what you bring. That is different. Yes. Think about sex in the city. Women, right?
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. That's [00:34:30] a great example.
Misty Megia: Right? They all have different personalities and different vibes, and they all bring something different to the table. And every cast that you look on TV, everybody represents something else. If every cast was the exact same person, it would be a boring show.
Nancy McClelland: It would be so boring. Yeah, absolutely. Um, there's something else that Candy says that I, I feel like is really important, which is this whole thing that we're talking about. It gets harder [00:35:00] with the people whose love or approval we want the most, right? Because finding your own voice, it means people are eventually going to hear things from you that they might not like, prefer to hear. Because sometimes your voice says no, or sometimes it says, I don't actually like that. Or sometimes it is put in a stake in the ground saying, this is what I want. And so it's, it makes it harder when there are people that we love. The more you want somebody's approval, [00:35:30] the harder it is.
Misty Megia: Yes. I mean, I don't have a lot to expand on that other than that sense of people pleasing is so deep in us because we are caregivers and we care about other people's feelings so much. And so finding that space to be able to say no and know that it is a full sentence is a muscle that you have to practice. I will say that even if I say [00:36:00] no to something, I go, oh, I want to tell you why I'm saying it. No, I want to tell you why I made this decision.
Nancy McClelland: And we're qualifying it and we're we're couching it because we want to be clear. Look, I'm not being a jerk. Yeah, yeah.
Misty Megia: But you don't know that people are interpreting it that way. You're assuming you're putting that assumption on somebody else that that's how they're interpreting it versus somebody that will say no to me. I'm like, hey, great boundary setting. Love it.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah. But [00:36:30] we're so we're so used to projecting our worst fear onto whomever we're speaking with. Right? I mean, yeah, which, which brings us to Emily, because her challenge was so different than candies, right?
Misty Megia: Yes, absolutely. From day one, I think Emily's whole challenge was that she was trying to, well, not trying to. She stepped into the C role [00:37:00] CEO role of a somebody else that had created the organization and felt that she needed to tell that story over and over in order for the organization to still do well. So to me, it was a very different type of almost fraud and not saying.
Nancy McClelland: No, but I mean, to connect the two stories, I totally agree. Yeah. Because it wasn't her voice. It wasn't her story. Right. Misty.
Misty Megia: Yeah. And it, it wasn't her [00:37:30] story and the anxiety of telling somebody else's story. Right.
Nancy McClelland: Oh.
Misty Megia: Was exponential.
Nancy McClelland: Oh my God. I can't even imagine, like the expectation and the pressure that you're setting on your own shoulders. Yeah.
Misty Megia: Yeah. It didn't work. Just. Spoiler.
Nancy McClelland: Spoiler alert. Well, because finding your own voice, it's not. It's not only about self-expression. Like sometimes it's sometimes [00:38:00] finding your own voice actually ends up becoming the tool that allows you to accomplish the work that you care most deeply about. I know you said that to me when I started the program, remember? I was just like, hey, Misty, I'm a total spaz. Are you gonna teach me how not to be a spaz on stage? And you're like, uh, that's kind of your brand girl. Lean into it, you know? So, I mean, it's sometimes our voices finding out, you know, what our true voice is and what our true message is. That's, that [00:38:30] becomes the thing that creates the impact because it's aligned with us. And I know you watched Emily make that transition too. Before we hear that interview, though, what what do you remember about Emily, who first came to you? You know, you talk about this weight and this anxiety.
Misty Megia: Fitting into somebody else's shoes, truly. And it was a very impactful story that he had that she had to share. And the [00:39:00] truly, the anxiety of not getting that right was paralyzing at times. Like, I do not want to get up and speak because if I get this wrong, this is his personal story.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Misty Megia: And so for her to start defining, well, what can I bring to this table was a beautiful journey to allow herself to go, oh, I have my own story and connection to this.
Nancy McClelland: Oh my God, I love [00:39:30] that so much. I'm totally I have chills. Okay, everybody keep that picture of her in your mind as you listen to the woman that I sat down with at curtain call. Emily, I am so glad you're joining us on the podcast today. Thank you so much for being here.
Candy Bellau: Thank you for the invite.
Nancy McClelland: So we are at the Theater of Public Speaking Advanced Retreat, and you're about to go on a soundstage in a few minutes to deliver the [00:40:00] keynote of your life. Yes. What's it about?
Emily Grey: It is about protecting our nation's canine heroes.
Nancy McClelland: Now, why do we care about protecting our nation's canine heroes? What do I mean? That sounds really great, but I'm guessing that you do some work in this area.
Emily Grey: Yes, it is my purpose. It's my North star. Uh, I work for an organization nonprofit called Spike's K9 fund. We protect America's working dogs with life saving equipment, emergency medical care, and also critical training. And so this message [00:40:30] today is to hopefully garner more support for the mission so we can protect these dogs.
Nancy McClelland: That's fantastic. So, um, that's a pretty amazing mission to have. What an incredible North star. Why are you taking a public speaking course on how to deliver this message.
Emily Grey: Yeah. So public speaking has never come natural to me. And, you know, early in I've been with this organization since inception and the founder of the organization was always [00:41:00] the face. He's a very gifted speaker. He was always the voice. And I was always kind of in the shadows where I liked it.
Nancy McClelland: And.
Emily Grey: Uh, you know, a few years ago, he had to step away from the organization to pursue some other things and forced me to, to be in the spotlight where I was very uncomfortable. And I approached Misty because I needed to reframe the delivery of the message that we were giving to people and make it my own.
Nancy McClelland: And so [00:41:30] you couldn't just take something that he had pre-written or a recording that he had done and get the same response out of an audience.
Emily Grey: Tried that.
Nancy McClelland: Oh, you did try it.
Emily Grey: Tried it. Uh, and I kept trying it and it just never felt right. And I could never shake the nerves. I never, uh, my voice was always shaky. I wasn't confident on the delivery. And so really, that's why I approached Misty, because I didn't know what next step to take. I didn't think there [00:42:00] was any hope for me. I didn't I thought, either you're a public speaker or you're not.
Nancy McClelland: Aha. Yeah. That is that is really common. You're you either have it or you don't. You know, on the podcast we've talked in, in previous episodes, Misty Mejia was actually a guest of ours on one of the episodes and question, um, our, my co-host, she talked about how she was so terrified. She actually used to contract for me. And I remember like, she wouldn't even speak up in Zoom meetings with the other people in our [00:42:30] firm. She was so nervous. And now, you know, she's on stages speaking to 500 people. And she did the same thing that you did. Um, with you, it's a little bit different because, you know, this podcast is for women in accounting. What you're doing is very, very different, but it's actually very much the same. You're looking to deliver a message with clarity and confidence. Yes. And so what changed in your experience [00:43:00] learning this? Like, are you are you like on the main stage all the time now? And people are like, woo hoo! Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: Rock on. Emily.
Emily Grey: Yes. The people that have known and seen my journey, they can see a very big difference, really because of Misty and Krista. Tell me. Yes. Uh. I have never loved my voice. And I feel like for the first time in my life. I appreciate my voice now. And I love it. And I'm not afraid to speak louder and share this message. And I realized [00:43:30] it's imperative for me to do this because without me speaking, the mission would fold. And there was no one else to step up and be in the spotlight. No one else knew this mission like I did. I had to get my voice out there to save these dogs. So?
Nancy McClelland: So your North Star is actually the thing that made you a better public speaker. I know you're given all the credit to Misty and Krista, but it's your mission and your commitment to that mission that got you here. So can you talk to [00:44:00] me about, um, some of the things that you've learned that have helped you to deliver a message with more clarity and confidence? And I'm asking this in particular because our listeners, women in accounting, they're talking to boards who are, um, you know, can have the power to hire or fire the general manager or, or the accountant, you know, um, they're talking to their team members. They're, um, trying to sell to clients to convince clients that they need their services. They [00:44:30] need to know what you have learned. Um.
Emily Grey: Yeah. And I think I love what Misty and Krista do because I feel like they meet you where you're at and they craft, you know, your journey based on what you need. And I needed that confidence. I needed help crafting the message and then help getting rid of the nerves that I had when I got in front of people. It was debilitating. And I had to get through that. And I just thought, like, this is how it's going to be. I'm just [00:45:00] gonna sound shaky and filled with nerves. So they give you tools. I have so many tools in my tool belt.
Nancy McClelland: Give me an example. Give me like, give me 1 or 2 things.
Emily Grey: The one of the biggest that I use is, uh, Misty encouraged me to have movement before I go in front of people. So I will sneak off to a bathroom, do some jumping jacks, whatever I need to do to just get it out. And I've noticed that makes such a huge difference.
Nancy McClelland: You know, that's because adrenaline is something that our body creates when it's got that [00:45:30] fight or flight. Right. And it's a it's something that can be tapped out. Yeah, you can actually use it all up. Yeah. And then it's not there anymore. And you're like, oh, it looks like the lion's not chasing me anymore. Exactly. Yes.
Emily Grey: Yeah.
Nancy McClelland: What's another example?
Emily Grey: Oh, another example. We've, I feel like been given so many tools this weekend and just over the years since I've started with this. I love how, uh, the different memorization [00:46:00] tools that they've given me. Um, I, I feel like I've learned so much on, you know, you don't have to just read it line for line the entire time, the whole thing all at once. You can break it up. And there's different things like incorporating movement into certain parts of your speech to help you trigger memory is, oh my goodness.
Nancy McClelland: So let's say you're talking to like a group of potential donors. I mean, that's a pretty high stakes environment. [00:46:30] And, you know, you've got talking points to share with them. Are you like tapping into this in those situations as well? Not just a memorized talk. Absolutely.
Emily Grey: Every, every conversation I have now, I've pulled tools from Misty and Crystal. Really? Yeah. Not just on the stage, not just in the boardrooms. Just one on one conversations. I've become a better speaker, a better listener because of them.
Nancy McClelland: That is incredible. I mean, I love the fact that you just, like, popped into [00:47:00] this conversation. Um, not really even knowing what I was going to ask you. And you're.
Emily Grey: Ready for.
Nancy McClelland: It. You're ready for it. You're absolutely ready for it. So, um, then to that end, tell us one way that we can help protect working dogs. Tell us about the work you do.
Emily Grey: Yeah. So it's important because these dogs are not volunteers. Unlike the human first responders. The dogs don't have a choice. They're put in this job because they have a specific set of skills that we as humans cannot do. They can [00:47:30] detect dead bodies underwater. Uh, you know, missing suspects, drugs, explosives, USB drives hidden in floorboards. It's incredible the work that these dogs do.
Nancy McClelland: That is incredible.
Emily Grey: Yeah. Mind blowing, mind blowing. And there's history has shown us that there's always going to be working dogs in our lives, and we're always going to need them. And because they're not volunteers, I believe in my heart we owe it to them to give them everything they need [00:48:00] to stay safe on the job and then take care of them in retirement because they've earned that. Yeah. So if anyone we're on social media, we're on all the platforms. We have, you know, great website, Spike's K9 fund.org. If anyone could just follow, share with your friends and family.
Nancy McClelland: And I will make sure to put spikes. All right. Say it again.
Emily Grey: Spike's K9 fund.org.
Nancy McClelland: Spike's K9 fund.org. I will make sure to put that in the show notes so that people can find you and follow you. And, uh, check out the amazing [00:48:30] work that you're doing. If you had one thing that you would like to share with women in accounting who are trying to figure out how to push through this fear of, um, whether it's public speaking or not. I mean, that I kind of hate to use the phrase public speaking because even if it's not public speaking, even if it's the one on one or the small group or the just sounding more confident when you're trying to convince someone of something. If you had one piece of advice for these women that is very specific to [00:49:00] the women's experience in this, what would it be?
Emily Grey: Well, first you need to go talk to Christy.Yeah, Krista uh, first you need to do that. But, uh, I believe, you know, I, I kept telling myself, like, this isn't for me. I don't belong here, or I shouldn't do this. I'm never going to be a public speaker. And you need to just put all of that aside and just be kind to yourself and just take that leap and take the first step. You don't have to wake up tomorrow and be a perfect [00:49:30] speaker. It's going to take some time. But this journey has been so rewarding and it's been fun. They make it really fun and just, I feel like you just need to take that first step, whether you're ready or not, whether you believe in yourself or not, just take the first step and then take the next one and then take.
Nancy McClelland: And then the next one and the next one. I was thinking earlier today that one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was, you will never feel ready, right? There's no such thing. I've been public speaking for years, probably. Yeah, over a decade at this point. Um, and I never feel [00:50:00] 100% ready for any situation. So you take a deep breath and. Yeah. And you do it. Well, I'm just, I'm so, so proud of you. And, you know, you and I got to do, um, one of my intermediate courses together, which was such a joy. And it's amazing to see you here at the advanced series. And I know you're gonna knock em dead on this stage.
Emily Grey: Thank you. Nancy.
Nancy McClelland: Thanks for being here, Emily.
Emily Grey: Thank you so much. This is a great opportunity.
Nancy McClelland: Okay, [00:50:30] Misty, having just heard that and knowing the Emily you first met, what do you hear now?
Misty Megia: I love her so much. She has. She has put in the work to do something in such service of the end result of saving people through protecting dogs. And because she shifted from [00:51:00] going, okay, well, what's my story and my connection? You know, she was able to talk about her grandmother. She was able to talk about all of these different connection points that she has to animals in her life. And that lit her up on stage because it was something that she knew to her core. So after she spoke on stage, there's videos of her and I online just doing the happy dance because it was like.
Nancy McClelland: I love those videos. They made me so happy. [00:51:30] Like it it, it actually was kind of like a physical example, an exemplification of I remember when I was with her in that interview and she said, for the first time in my life, I appreciate my voice now and I love it. I mean, it just my whole heart just got so many sizes bigger. And her dancing around on those videos with you afterward was like, it's it [00:52:00] was that joy inherent?
Misty Megia: Yeah. I live for that.
Nancy McClelland: Look at you. I see you crying. You are totally.
Misty Megia: I live for that though. I live for women. Just understanding what they bring to the table and stop trying to fit into these expectations that we've created for ourselves sometimes.
Nancy McClelland: Oh yeah.
Misty Megia: That release of it. I know what it can do because I've lived that too. But to watch other women have it is [00:52:30] my day to day joy. And watching her transition from her voice shaking and not being able to tell a story to saying, I love my voice. I don't think people can understand what a big transition that is.
Nancy McClelland: I mean, we're, we're always, we're always two to this or to that, right. We're we're too much. I've been told my whole life. You're too much. You're too much, you're too much. There are people who are too quiet, right? You're too quiet. [00:53:00] You're too quiet. You're too this, you're too that. You're too the other thing. And to find out that I am exactly the right amount of everything, that's like. That's what I learned. That's what Emily is learning. It's, you know, and it's it's extra powerful because of course, look what she's doing with it.
Misty Megia: Truly. And if you only knew some of this stuff she has coming up.
Nancy McClelland: Really?
Misty Megia: Oh, I can't wait till she can tell [00:53:30] you all it is. And I'm like, who are you? I love this. Once that once that unlocks for somebody, we see the just the trajectory take off because we do not do not realize the amount of hours in our life that we have muted ourselves and practiced that muscle. Yeah. And so it is a now a muscle that you have to really, really [00:54:00] work at to go. I'm, it's a new story. It's a new story. I'm not that person. I'm not that person. And she has done the work to get there because it is work. If we could just flip a light switch and it be okay, that would be amazing.
Nancy McClelland: It would be so, so much nicer though. Can we just make this easy, please? Because it is really hard. I mean, discovering that you're unique, you have to discover [00:54:30] your unique voice in the first place. And then, you know, in her case, this is the key to accomplishing this mission that is so dear to her, and she knows it so well. Um, and it's, I don't know, it's part of what I love about these two conversations coming together because Candy had to stop changing her voice to belong and begin finding her own.
Misty Megia: Yeah, it's a great pairing. Nancy, you did such a good job about putting these two together, [00:55:00] because it really is a discovery of who we are.
Nancy McClelland: Yeah.
Misty Megia: At the core and that path to get there for both of them.
Nancy McClelland: Right. Which totally brings me back to something you said the last time you were here, when we talked about what it means to unmute yourself, you actually described it. I went back and listened to the episode when I was prepping for this. You described it as fully becoming, was the phrase asking yourself, [00:55:30] how do I want to show up and become? And you talked about getting quiet enough to ask, what do I want? But wait, you have to actually listen for the answer. And I remember that resonated so deeply because it's really easy. Like I was saying in high school, you know, there were times when I would I would take my lunch period in the library because it was quiet, because I was like, you lost yourself [00:56:00] again. You lost yourself again. Who are you? Who are you? And because it's incredibly easy to lose track of our answer to that question of what do I want? Like to start shaping ourselves around who we think the world wants us to be.
Misty Megia: Yeah. I mean, it's a very hard question to answer of who am I? When you have so much external noise saying who you should be, right? Of like, oh, I earned X [00:56:30] amount of dollars in one week and I did this and this amount of time and you can do it too. It is a lot. A lot of noise telling us everybody else's success and their paths that to get quiet. It takes a lot of time on that journey to go, okay. And I feel like me going from corporate to this.
Nancy McClelland: Oh God, that's a great example.
Misty Megia: Has been that journey, right? Of like, yeah, you watch my videos. The wall behind [00:57:00] me slowly is had changes in my education as I unpeel back the corporate version of Misty and I discover who I am that doesn't represent another brand other than me. And if we can figure out who I am as a brand, as a person, as somebody, that what do I want to do in the world? What impact do I want to make? These two lovely women have discovered the [00:57:30] impact that they want to make. And once you do that, I feel like there's no stopping you. It's like, yeah, bring it.
Nancy McClelland: Oh my God, I'm so glad that you came back to She Counts especially joining me for this one. It just it feels so right to close our Curtain Call series with the person who got to watch these women find their way to that stage in the first place.
Misty Megia: Thank you again for asking me to love on these [00:58:00] people. I mean, it's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it.
Nancy McClelland: I know you're loving working with the current cohort. There was one dear friend of mine who's in the cohort right now, Shirley Koss. And I was like, make sure you give her extra love. And she was like, we are gonna, we are gonna envelop her in our, like, you know, blanket of love and affection. It is, it is something that you love doing and you do [00:58:30] really well. So thank you to you also Candy and Emily and all six of the women who trusted me with their stories during this series. It was a, it was a, a huge privilege for me. And as we wrap up, we would love for you to follow this She Counts podcast LinkedIn page and join in the conversation under this episode, The Power of Your Own Voice. We want to hear from our listeners. Where in your life are you still adjusting [00:59:00] your voice to fit what other people expect and what could change if you trusted your own.
Misty Megia: And before we sign off, we want to leave you with a quote from Elizabeth Gilbert. The universe buries strange jewels deep within us all, and then stands back to see if we can find them. Oh.
Nancy McClelland: Thank you for helping us find those jewels, [00:59:30] Misty. And thanks to our listeners for being here with us on She Counts the Real Talk podcast for Women in Accounting.
Misty Megia: If something in today's episode hit home for you, that is exactly why Nancy and crew are doing this.
Nancy McClelland: So you feel seen, heard, and never alone.
Misty Megia: Remember that you can get CPE credit for listening at. I'm going to get this right this time here. Earmark.app. [01:00:00]
Nancy McClelland: Links to that, as well as how to learn more about our sponsors, solutions and any other resource. And we have a bunch of them for these curtain call ones. So many show notes. They will all be in the show notes, so please check them out. And um, especially for spike Spike's K9 fund, Spike's K9 fund.org. If you go to the website, you will see all of the socials up there on the left hand corner. Um, and help support that incredibly [01:00:30] good cause.
Misty Megia: And please subscribe, leave a review, leave a comment. Do not let these women hang there with knowing whether they landed or not. We don't know who's watching. So chime in and be a part of the conversation because that is another way to practice unmuting your voice.
Nancy McClelland: Absolutely. Thank you so much. And we will see everyone in two weeks.