There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.
Nancy: [00:00:00] Hey, Questian.
Questian: Yeah.
Did you see the Net Gains newsletter yesterday? They highlighted us as a friend of Net Gains with a great little writeup about the She Counts podcast.
Questian: No, really? That's so cool. I'm not a subscriber, so I probably missed it. Are you a subscriber?
Nancy: Yeah, I love their weekly summary of news roundups for the [00:00:20] accounting industry. I was actually so excited 'cause they gave us a shout out last month and now we're listed as a friend. It's pretty awesome. That's so cool. How do I sign up? I'll make sure to include them in the show notes. They're at the net gains.co
Questian: [00:00:40] T-H-E-N-E-T-G-A-I-N s.co.
Awesome. I'm going to subscribe. Thank you.
Nancy: Welcome to She Counts the [00:01:00] Real Talk Podcast for Women in Accounting.
We're your hosts, Nancy McClelland and Question Tel, and every episode we're digging into the real experiences challenges. And unspoken truths of this profession
Questian: because if you felt like you're the only one you're not, and you shouldn't have to figure it out alone.
Nancy: Special thanks to our [00:01:20] sponsors, forwardly Ignition Keeper and Justine Lackey's incubator for helping us bring these conversations to life, enabling us to share out loud what everyone's thinking, but no one's saying.
Questian: You might have all noticed that we look a little bit different today. We're in person for the first time since we [00:01:40] started the podcast, and we have our first guest in person, NIO Carter Gray. We're at Scaling New Heights. Woo hoo. Woo. So it's a, a conference in Orlando that we're all happy to be at. We've all been speaking here as well.
Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, we wanted to get our first [00:02:00] podcast recorded while we were here as
Nancy: well.
And today's episode is called Space to Serve Well. The Beauty of Boundaries. We're talking about something so many of us struggle with how to protect our time without damaging our relationships. Our special guest, NIO Carter Gray, has [00:02:20] a practical, thoughtful approach to setting boundaries that actually strengthen the way we serve.
Questian: NO just presented an amazing session on AI here at Scaling New Heights, and is gonna be speaking at the upcoming Bridging the Gap conference. And on today's topic, she will be speaking about [00:02:40] it at the conference, right? Yes.
Nancy: Setting clear boundaries. That's correct. With that, I am delighted to introduce our dear friend.
Nayo is an EA who runs her own firm and whose catchphrase is making accounting a little less taxing for small business owners. Very cute. Thank you. She also, it's trademarked. It's Oh, it's [00:03:00] trademarked, so don't try stealing it. Nice. She's also an incredibly generous educator and we both have learned so much from her.
Questian: We love launching every episode with a story. And usually it's Nancy or I that shares this story. But today we're asking Nio to share one of our or one of [00:03:20] hers. So welcome to She Counts. Thank you for being here for us. Well, thank you for
Nayo: having me first of all. Uh, and we're talking boundaries today.
And I know you're asking me to share a story, so I will share one, uh, about the one star review I just got a couple of weeks ago.
A one star review. Yeah. One star Google Review. [00:03:40] How
Questian: much did your heart sink when you saw that?
Nayo: Oh, the anger in me boiled over because it just so happened to be on the day that I was like so tired and I had decided to not go to work and I was like, I'm gonna sleep in, and I rolled over and opened that email.
And saw you have been given a one star review [00:04:00] from a client. So needless to say, I popped up because I was angry. I opened up a Google doc and I proceeded to write a, uh, almost 5,000 word response. And, and just in case this ever happens to you and you wanna respond. They give you 4,000 characters. So I was well [00:04:20] above the limit.
Wait, they give you 4,000 characters? You had 5,000
Questian: words? I had about 5,000. Okay. Can I ask you a question? Yes. Have you ever written an email like that and then put it in chat GPT to make it make you sound like you know
Nayo: a little bit more? Nicer. Not so pissed. Yes. But my team will tell you, I'm really good at writing the aggressively angry [00:04:40] emails in such a wonderful professional tone that it makes the other person on the other end receiving the email say, is it me?
Did I do something wrong? Oh, that's good. That's teach
Questian: me your wave. Yes.
Nayo: But back to the One Star review. I don't know if any of you know this, but I've purchased a list of clients from another Accountant. And so normally when we bring a [00:05:00] client on, we have this vetting process to make sure that they are a good fit.
And with this purchasing of this list, you kind of just get what you get. Ooh. Um, and so from the onset of the relationship, this client just didn't necessarily follow our. Protocols. We have a communications policy that [00:05:20] goes out with our, um, tax communications. So this was a tax client and him and his wife both called my office demanding callbacks.
We work by appointment only. We've set this several times. Uh, and one thing we don't do is I don't answer the phone. So this is the way I set boundaries is you can't call the [00:05:40] office in demand to speak to me. You need an appointment. And we tell people this upfront so that they aren't angry because when I'm talking to you.
I wanna just be able to talk to you and not have any distraction. Right? Absolutely. And that was a problem for this particular client. So that's what led to the one star review. Uh, just his inability to call me up and me respond immediately. [00:06:00] We do prefer email communications. We tell clients that too.
Nancy: Um, and you were just telling me that you actually use tech to silo all of those emails into the correct place so that everybody on your team who needs to see that email communication can see it.
Yes. So
Nayo: we respond to the review, he [00:06:20] sees the response, and then emails me and takes his response down because he discovered that on his end there was some tech issue and he hadn't been receiving emails for a week. Oh, so the thing that he was upset with about.
Questian: Was not even our fault. It was his. Wow.
That's why I always say just in general, to give people grace, give them the benefit of the [00:06:40] doubt, right? Yes. Right. Yeah, for sure. Your client could've done that for you. It would've saved a lot of, uh, heartache, right. For everyone.
Nayo: Absolutely. Him just going online, doing that and expressing his anger in that manner, just let me know he wasn't a good fit.
Mm-hmm. So we. We have since parted ways. Yes, we've done the thing, we're all good, but he also took down his
Nancy: nasty review in the [00:07:00] process, so that is a good thing.
Well, you've spoken about boundaries not being barriers, but rather bridges to better client relationships. Can you walk us through what that looks like in practice?
Nayo: So one thing to understand is when we are running a firm, we try to wear all the hats [00:07:20] and sometimes things slip through the cracks. When I initially set up my firm, I was doing all the things, trying to set the appointments, trying to have all the client calls, uh, and, and I realized I was spending so much time on things that clients can do themselves, like schedule an appointment.
My availability is on my calendar. They know the [00:07:40] days that they're available, so why not allow them to schedule when they can? It doesn't have to be normal business hours. They can roll over and schedule from their phone. So that was one way that kind of started giving me my time back, was taking those little things off the off of my plate.
Then I started looking at. Hey, my clients wanna [00:08:00] talk to me, or they wanna schedule a call. Do they have to talk to me to schedule that call? Because when I call the doctor's office, the doctor isn't the one on the phone scheduling a call. It's usually the front desk admin or a nurse practitioner or somebody.
Ooh, lower on the rung, so to say. Um, and so what we did was, and I still to this day, I love my answering service. [00:08:20] We use the answering service. I don't answer the phone. Oh, oh, really? Use an answering service. Yeah. And that boundary I expressed to every single client from when we have our initial potential client calls to every email, you're gonna get the answering service if you call.
The least fastest way to get on my calendar is say, have her call me back. Yeah,
Questian: that reminds me. [00:08:40] Use the Calendly link. Yeah, that reminds
Nancy: me of Alisha's talk at Bridging the Gap. I think it was last year, maybe it was the first year where she was just like, if you email me, you know it may take me three, four months to get back in touch with you.
So I just make sure people know email is not, that's one of her ways of setting boundaries. Yeah, she makes [00:09:00] sure she's like that. We have lots of ways. It's not with us communication. That is not it.
Nayo: Yeah, but that's ours because I like the, I like to document the timeline. Right. What I told you this, here it is in the email.
Plus I'm forgetful. Yeah. I'm of that a woman of a certain age.
Questian: Now my
Nayo: brain ain't working the
Questian: way it used to. Well, and you wanna just focus on what your client's real needs are. Not being, [00:09:20] doing all these tasks that take a ton of time for you to do that really aren't. Yep. Giving them what it is they're, they're exactly they for, right?
Yeah.
Nayo: Plus, I also want them to be able to communicate exactly what they need, so it's a training tool for them to be able to say, I need this particular thing, because if you just wanna talk, then let's go out for [00:09:40] lunch or dinner. But if you really need something, tell me what it is that you need so I can help.
Can I ask
Questian: you, how much pushback do you get from clients when they're onboarding about your boundaries? Is it a matter of if you're getting them set up and you're clear about it in the very beginning, they are typically fine with it, [00:10:00] or do with the exception of the one star people. With the exception of the one star people Yes.
Who are like, bye-bye, move along. Um, so yeah, tell me
Nayo: how, how has that been? So what I try to do is do a really good job of, of explaining it. The first time. So in our potential client call, I'll walk you through the process. I tell you everybody on the team [00:10:20] in the follow up email, it's at the bottom of the email, everything I just said in this call.
Uh, we have a welcome guide that also reiterates it. Ooh, back up. Back up. Welcome
Nancy: guide. I love that. Yes, love that. Okay, so there is a really, that is a proactive step that people can make to set those boundaries ahead of time. Yes. Yeah, I have one,
Questian: I do that as well. I call it a [00:10:40] client manual. Yes. And when I onboard them, when our first onboarding call, we go through the, the manual, which is a set of expectations set.
It
Nayo: is in the engagement letter as well. Um, people don't read. This is true. So I said that earlier today. Yeah. I honestly did. so that has worked, but. I have [00:11:00] such a big personality that people want more of my time. Uh, and so there were some disappointing, disappointing clients this year who were like, well, we wanted to talk to you after you delivered your tax return.
And I was like, you could. That's an additional service though. You are. You just check the box and pay the fee. Yeah. And so they're like, oh, okay. So I'm realizing now I need to do a [00:11:20] better job of explaining like, this is the time you're gonna talk to me from this moment forward. If you wanna talk to me more.
That is an additional fee. You're like their therapist
Questian: too.
Nayo: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes they just wanna ask questions, and we do have services that allow them to do that, but newer clients sometimes are just, I don't know. Maybe it's because [00:11:40] of the relationship they have with somebody else. They're expecting more than what we've outlined that we're giving them.
So we've really
Questian: created this instant gratification economy. Right? Yeah. Or culture. And so when they come from someone else, often, I'm guessing they're used to getting. Being able to text on a personal phone and being able to call hours [00:12:00] of the day. Mm-hmm. And if you don't set those boundaries, then you're just gonna be.
Burnt out. It's absolutely true.
Nayo: And I say all the time we're virtual. That doesn't mean we're 24 7. We have business hours. We work Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 6:00 PM Eastern standard time. Oh wow. That's fascinating. I'm not working on Saturday one thing and if I am is my choices. You don't know that [00:12:20] I'm working on Saturday.
Yeah, exactly. Not.
Nancy: One thing that I do mention, um, is that they may get emails from me. Any day on a weekend in the middle of the night, that doesn't mean they have to respond to it in that moment. And the same goes for me when I'm getting their messages. I will respond to it on my time [00:12:40] and that my days of the week and my hours might be weird, but that's when I'm doing
Nayo: it.
But I stopped doing that because there is an expectation that if you send a email on a Saturday at seven. They, if they email you, you're working, they have this impression that you're working. So even though I might be working [00:13:00] Saturday noon, I will schedule the email for Monday morning at 10:00 AM Eastern or 10 0 5, so it won't feel like I've scheduled the email, um, because I noticed that we tend to, even though we're working.
People feel a little pressure to respond. That's It's not, it's true. Yeah. Always a good, good thing. And even though you're like, oh, don't feel the [00:13:20] pressure, it's like, but I saw it. I can't leave it. And it's in my brain now. I read it. I shouldn't have it. So sometimes I'll just schedule. I'll write it out.
Schedule it. And I'll do the same thing with like my team, my team messages too. Because sometimes I'm thinking about something and I'm like, oh, this is good for Monday morning. And I'll message and say, this is for Monday. Do [00:13:40] not open your phone. Right.
Questian: So you, so you told us, you know, we talked about working hours, scheduling, education, educating clients.
We go over automating. We didn't. Yes. So automation is, you mentioned that to us before, is one of your methods? It is.
Nayo: I am. I love me some automation One, it gives me my time [00:14:00] back so that when I'm talking to clients, I can just focus on the clients. Yes. Um, so we try to build some automation in there. Like you, uh, fill out the potential client form.
I get an email that tells me all about you, and then we accept it or decline it based on your responses or after you have signed, just getting you onboarded into [00:14:20] the process a little faster. Here's what to expect next. Right? Those. Immediate gratification, emails go out and the clients are like, okay, I'm ready to get started.
A little pumped up, you know, after you pay for something, you're like, I'm gonna get started right away. You're want, I wanna do it now. Yeah. Right. That's true. And so sometimes we wanna take advantage of that momentum to, to kind of get [00:14:40] them rolling. Um, I do also love giving clients a timeline of things. Oh, me too too.
I've had trainings where they say the first. 60 days like matter the most. So if you can deliver something within 60 days, even if it's just a face-to-face meeting and say, here's where we are now. Um, that makes it all the [00:15:00] difference in the world. But again, it's scheduled. It's not just some random meeting you showing up on a Wednesday.
Uh, and then the other thing is we try to, I know how I work. Certain days are better for me for certain things, so sales calls are on Monday 'cause I am pumped up for the week. Right. I know everybody arrested. I get them, everybody get the Monday blues. I don't. [00:15:20] Monday is like, I'm, I'm ready. Gimme all the sales calls.
I do not feel like that. See,
Questian: I don't, I don't think I do either. Yeah, most people
Nayo: don't. And so Monday is our sales calls and we schedule 'em early in, earlier in the day. And then Thursday is my later in the day
Nancy: day. Sounds like you've thought through [00:15:40] very much. Um, I'm guessing you've made some mistakes in the past and that this is all born of, well, that didn't work.
So let's refine, let's refine, let's tweak. So it sounds like you have like such, you know, such an amazing method and are so good at setting boundaries, but so many women aren't in our [00:16:00] field. Especially I know that I am not good at setting boundaries and limits. Um, so. What it helped you, and maybe you were always good at this, but what helped you reframe your mindset or what can other people do?
Questian: Like me, to reframe their mindset because
Nancy: Yeah, some, some women feel guilty. Yeah. Setting limits [00:16:20] and no is a call out boundaries.
Questian: No. Is a complete, because you said that to me so many times before and I love that.
Nancy: No. Were you born that way? I love that what she's saying. Were you born that way or were you able to develop this?
You got, it's, it's practice.
Nayo: It, it's practice. If you feel guilty about all of the things, then you will never feel good about all of the things. So [00:16:40] sometimes you have to take your guilt and say, why am I feeling guilty about this? Is it because I'm not able to do this? Or is it because I don't want to do this?
And so when you realize it's something you don't want to do, the answer's no. No is a complete sentence. I don't have to give you an excuse. Why. Okay. I don't have to explain myself. I ha don't have to bend over backwards [00:17:00] because then you're looking at who you're doing it for and you. Then start that built up.
Resentment. The resentment, absolutely. And I don't wanna resent you, I wanna be able to enjoy whatever relationship that we have. And enjoy it. Every time I see you, I don't wanna be like, oh, let me avoid this girl. Right? She comes, yeah. You know, there's some particular people around here that walk [00:17:20] around with a laptop and wanna show off some documents, and you're like, you're chasing me with a computer, so every time I see you, I'm like hiding.
I don't wanna have to hide. Because, sorry, because we don't have boundaries. I'm just seeing like Naya running by behind so many chain. It's funny because I hid behind Tony [00:17:40] last night. There was a particular guest here who, who, who did that? Who does that? Yeah. I, and I'll tell you off camera, it is of your interest.
I think I already know. Yeah. You know, and I get that you're excited about all the things. Yeah. But everybody is not excited about. All your passion project. That's true. Your permission before you just spill it on somebody. And back to the guilt, before we go off of this [00:18:00] topic, you talk about that built up resentment and then that guilty feeling.
And I want you to dig deep and say, why do I feel guilty about this? Is it because I'm putting something ahead of something else that I shouldn't be prioritizing? Because you know like an answer that, yeah. People pleaser. People pleaser. Yep. And [00:18:20] then we start pleasing the wrong people. The person you have to, not me, they tell you on the plane, you gotta take care of your mask first.
So if you're doing stuff you don't enjoy, put your oxygen mask. Yeah, that's right. That's before you help others. No, is a good point. A complete sentence.
Questian: I'll always say that. I'm gonna put that on a post-it note on my computer because I keep telling everyone this is, I mean, this is [00:18:40] how I survive. I have quotes around the screen of my monitor.
There are things that other people have said to me that kind of like, they're good. Re they serve as reminders. Yeah. And I'll just look at them when I'm having a moment. Right. Some of them are
Nancy: affirmations. Some are affirmations. Some of them are important reminders. That's right here that, uh, oh, I got another
Nayo: one too.
I tell my mom all the time, not your monkey, not your [00:19:00] circus.
Questian: Yeah. I love that saying. I heard that one too. Yeah, it's funny. Love
Nayo: that. You know, you sometimes you see chaos. It's not for you to always jump in and save the chaos. All right, I've got a related
Nancy: one. Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
Nayo: Absolutely, yes. Yes. [00:19:20]
Nancy: All right. Well, I wanna know, what are some of the lessons you've learned along the way about client communication that have helped you set. And maintain these boundaries. And I really wanna know, did you have to learn them all the hard way? And are any of them still hard to follow, like you catch yourself?
And the reason that I'm [00:19:40] framing this question in that way is that I know for many of us. Well, for all of us, it's an iterative process, right? Mm-hmm. Like we get a little bit better, we get a little bit better, we load a little bit better. Sometimes we take a couple steps back. Yeah. Two
Questian: step forward, one step back, because that's staying, right?
Yeah. But
Nancy: that's still moving forwarding song
Questian: now
Nancy: that's still [00:20:00] moving forward. And, um, I have seen in myself that, um, as far as I've come, I still have so far to go. Yes. And I'm guessing. Same here. I know you're my, my, one of my people who was in my vulnerability as a strength panel last year at Bridging the Gap.
I know you'll tell us the truth about this. So
Nayo: [00:20:20] truth, yes. It's just when you think you have the process nailed down, somebody will tell you you don't. So, like I mentioned this year, I, you know, my process is to explain all the things and upfront we put it all in the welcome guide and we send an email with all the things, and someone still told me the process was stale, and I'm listening to [00:20:40] that feedback because I'm like, I can understand exactly why you're saying that.
And I, I see the gap. So now I am working on how can I incorporate new language or make it more interactive or give them a little bit more face time with me so that they are understanding that here's what you paid for, here's [00:21:00] what we're delivering. The work here is now done because sometimes people pay you and they think that because they paid you the one time that they own you.
Mm-hmm. And it's so
Questian: common with taxes too, right? It's, yes. It's
Nayo: like, oh, I paid you
Questian: to do my tax return now you have to give me tax advice for the rest of the year and, and I have
Nayo: to. Yeah. So I'm working on doing a better job of, you know. [00:21:20] Of that kind of like when you get on the plane and they welcome to, you know, first step accounting, this is how the process is gonna go and, and really make it a little bit more interactive and personal so that they will kind of get it from the onset and decide before we talk if we're a good fit.
Mm-hmm. But it's always a work
Nancy: in [00:21:40] progress.
Nayo: So I am
Nancy: laughing right now because I am imagining you putting a life vest on over your head and explaining to. And that that is probably what I'm gonna do to make
Nayo: it more memorable. Yeah, that's really good idea. Record that video. I really like that. But I was also here teaching a session on AI and how to use AI in that communication strategy.
[00:22:00] So one thing I realized is that over-communicating is a little bit better than under-communicating. Mm-hmm. So I have been using check GPT in order to create those, uh, email. Correspondence and kind of scheduling them so that they're already ready to go in advance. Okay. And the other thing about this is, I sent some this year, [00:22:20] but for whatever reason my clients thought I was sending them individually, they didn't realize it was a mass email.
So I have to do a better job of saying this is a mass email communication. Oh my gosh. So were they all writing you back then? They were all writing you back? Oh my gosh. You know, a few of them had were on the list and it was like, here's a reminder submitted. This is a mass email [00:22:40] reminder. You're on the list.
It's just be reminded. But it was cool because at least I knew Yeah, you're reading my emails. I get that a lot. Yeah. I actually get
Nancy: that a lot because, um, even my out of office emails sound like I'm talking to you mm-hmm. As an individual. Um, and I think I would rather. Have them mistake it as being [00:23:00] personal, then I would have them mistake something personal as being massed.
Right? Yeah. I
Nayo: mean,
Nancy: at least Exactly.
Nayo: Yeah. But I, but I'm gonna do a better job of saying this is a, just a reminder email that's going out to everyone. Yeah, that's a very good, I like that.
Nancy: Um, you've got some talking points, um, here when you give your, your, um, bridging [00:23:20] the gap, uh, talk on setting boundaries that are dues.
And don'ts of effective communication. We'd love to hear some of those
Nayo: be clear. So don't beat around the bush. You know, I am very direct, straightforward. No,
Questian: I mean, I, I love that about you, but
Nayo: I mean, [00:23:40] um, but it comes in handy because there's never any guessing what she meant. Yes. Yeah. You know, and I know my client base, so we try to not.
Overwhelm them with too many to-dos. We try to keep it to some bullet points straight and to the point, because I know they're all busy too. Who wants to read a 20 page email? That's true. [00:24:00] Um, then being proactive about that communication. So you know, you're gonna be away for a week. Tell them, Hey, at the end of the month I'm going away.
Uh, we're gonna try to get all these things to you beforehand, but in case we don't, this is why I'm unresponsive during this week.
Nancy: Yeah, I, the proactive one is, has. Been, um, really [00:24:20] important for me because I do attend at and speak so at so many conferences and, um, I, I found that when they just get the out of office once I'm already gone, it's a very different reaction Yes.
Than me starting even. I just, it's still an out of office, it's automated, you know, but I'm starting [00:24:40] that out of office a week early and saying, Hey, I'm preparing for this and therefore it. Might be a little longer before I'm responding to you now, because I'm trying to focus on the clients who need deliverables before I, and I've,
Questian: I've seen those emails.
They're always great too. Right? Oh, thank you. And sometimes they're funny too, so it's like, you know, okay, well you [00:25:00] can't, yeah. Humor. Yeah.
Nayo: We love a little, we love our humor moment. Humor, right? Yeah.
Questian: Humor. I want 'em to sound like
Nayo: me.
Questian: They do.
Nayo: Hundred percent. They sound like you, so you feel good. I like to throw a little gif in there too.
Right? That's smart. I have a little giffy maker and sometimes I'll make my own gif uhhuh, so it'll be like my
Questian: face doing something crazy. You're gonna have to tell me later what that is [00:25:20] because I can never find a good one. And I like to make them too.
Nayo: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, and then be consistent. So, you know, our clients don't like wishy-washy.
We, we wanna, if you're gonna communicate about one trip, communicate about the ball. And I try to do it early enough so that they can be [00:25:40] prepared to like, oh yeah, she said she was going on vacation, uh, in September, even though it might be May. Right? Mm-hmm. That way they can mentally prepare for it.
Nancy: I like that.
Um, there was also one that you wrote. Um, provide alternatives. And that has been another one that's been really helpful for me and I believe for [00:26:00] you as well, question, right?
Questian: Yeah, of course.
Nancy: Yeah. So that it would be when somebody gets in touch, you're just like, I'm not available to help with that. However, I have an amazing team that I've invested a lot of my time and energy Yes.
Into training. And they will take really great care of you.
Yes. And they. This is one of the things actually I have pointed [00:26:20] out many times that has been really useful. They know at what point they need to reach out to me. Yes. And so the client feels comfortable that it's not like my. Team members are gonna flounder.
If they get to something where they really will need to ask me, they'll, they'll reach out to me and I'll be there for them. But then, and I try to again, like my team members reaching out to me, not the client reaching [00:26:40] out to me.
Questian: That's right. That's right. And that's what I do as well. And so it's like this is your point of contact for this time period.
And I especially had to do that when my son was in the hospital. I can respond to you at all. So please direct any questions. If you can wait for anything, that would be great. But if it's urgent mm-hmm. They'll pass everything along to me and, and we'll get it taken care of still. But, uh, [00:27:00] yeah. So making sure that they understand who they can reach out to.
Yeah. And that there are alternatives. You're not.
Nancy: NAYA is not the, the only person at her firm.
Nayo: Right.
And see, the one thing I do a little different from you all, we have a shared email inbox. Mm-hmm. And so every meeting, every email is seen by the entire team that's responsible, so that at any [00:27:20] given point, if any one of us is out.
Somebody can pick in, jump in. Wow, that's amazing.
Questian: I kind of use carbon for that. So there's a carbon has like a, a triage and if you, as long as you map it to the, the work item Yeah. And people have access to it, then they can see. Yeah.
Nayo: Yeah.
Questian: But we
Nayo: use one email address. So if you email like a NO or anybody on my team, [00:27:40] they will direct you to email.
Hello. Because we'll tell you that email inbox is not monitored. Oh, okay. Because we want the the communication like all in one. One message. One sound. One voice, right? Yeah. That's amazing. One Sam, one bank. So can I ask you then,
Questian: do you have an email address that you do have an email address that's just yours, but you don't give it to your clients?
Mm-hmm. Okay. [00:28:00] Just like they don't have my
Nayo: cell phone number. Eat that. I learned
Nancy: that last. I have both of those things. Just so we're clear now.
Tell us some don'ts.
Questian: Yeah.
Nayo: Okay. Give us some. No-no, no-Nos do not over promise. I know sometimes we like to say we, I'm gonna have that done tomorrow.
Questian: Oh, I'm bad about that actually.
Nayo: Yeah.
Questian: [00:28:20] Yeah. But then I have, I do it, but then I'm miserable because I am like, why didn't I put it up? You know? So as soon as I can, it might be a few days like so. Well, no, that's
Nayo: what you did because here's, here's the magic behind this, alright? This is a sales technique. Oh, tell people it's gonna take longer and when you deliver it earlier, they're happy, they're excited.
'cause you got it early. Yeah. So you know the shipping thing, it's going take over two weeks to [00:28:40] ship out and then you notice it ships in two days. A you, you're like, yes. So if you tell people that'll be three weeks, but you deliver it within a week and a half.
Nancy: I think that's really hard. You
Nayo: under over deliver, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Nancy: Mm-hmm. I think that's really hard for people who have A DHD and are looking for the deadline to trigger hyperfocus. It's also
Questian: a problem because I [00:29:00] think part of A DHD issues that I have is time management and understanding how long it's gonna take myself to accomplish something and point's part of it too.
That's a good, and so I think that I'm going to accomplish it sooner than what I actually. Okay. Well, you know, what you might end
Nancy: up doing is taking her advice to Under Promise and over deliver. Yeah. And you'll under promise. And it turns [00:29:20] out it's right on time. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's pretty much actually that would be, and that, you know, we keep talking about incremental improvement.
Nayo: Yeah.
I don't have a DHD, but the one thing that helps me with that is the Pomodoro technique. Yes. Oh, I don't know what that is. So basically it is a, you set a timer for 25 minutes. Oh, okay. You focus on one thing [00:29:40] 25 minutes. Take a five minute break. If you not finish that thing and you wanna keep working on it, add 25 minutes.
This way you can start seeing how long something takes you so that when you have to do it again, you'll say, oh, that was three
Questian: Pomodoros. That also takes like. You know, it puts everything in like a short period of trying to hyper focus. Yes. Because I am [00:30:00] really susceptible to all sorts of distractions.
Yes. So I have to do things like turn notifications off on phone and turn it off my computer. I use
Nayo: those profiles on the iPhone all the time. Work when I get to my office, it goes in work mode. There's only four apps that'll pop up. Notifications. That's my calendar, the team app, and my good notes. I can write in.
Okay,
Nancy: now you did [00:30:20] already talk a little bit about delaying responses and not sending those out immediately. Yeah. Um, I love this last one. This is a favorite of mine and it is something that made a big difference for me.
Do not
Nayo: apologize for taking that personal time. We are humans. We are not robots. We are not made to [00:30:40] work 24 7.
We need time to just decompress, focus on other things, whether that is people, whether that is just taking a walk. Like I love. One thing that Hope does is take a walk every day. She goes out in that and takes a walk and she talks about what she sees on her walk. That is her time, and what it helps her [00:31:00] do is really.
Utilize the brain functionality to do her client work. She feels refreshed. She's got some vitamin D in her system now that sunshine. Um, but don't apologize for that because if you worked for someone else. And your hours were nine to [00:31:20] five and they asked you to come in at seven, you would be pissed. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. So you work for yourself, but you don't set up these same rules for yourself. Yeah. The clients don't own you. They're, you're working with
Questian: them. They are partners, you're their. Partner, and I think that's such a good reminder because I am an, and Nancy knows this and literally said it to me, I think, I don't know, [00:31:40] yesterday, two days over Apologizer for everything.
Oh, like, oh no.
Nayo: Women do that all the time. You know? I know. I think we need to have an episode about that. We can, absolutely. We have it. I say it all the time. Why are you sorry? You say I'm sorry. What are you sorry for? Yeah. And if you can't tell me what you're sorry for, that's not, that wasn't the right answer.
That's not the right answer. I want
Nancy: your apologies to be sincere. Oh, I mean, they are. Yeah. [00:32:00] No, I mean, I don't want you to. Sorry, I don't want you to feel sorry for so many things. Yeah. If, if you're apologizing to me, I was like, I don't feel want to be able to forgive you for it for something, you know?
Nayo: But here's the one trick with that, and I tell people to switch the mindset instead of being sorry for something, thank the other person for their patience or [00:32:20] something.
So one thing, it's like, oh, I'm sorry I'm late. No, thank you for your patience. You waited for me. Yes, I am late. But really I should be saying no. That's a great, that's a great record for reframes. The, the thought about being late. 'cause then you take that guilt off your stress, oh, it's late. This person was patient.
Let's, that's right. Let's honor, let's celebrate that. Now
Nancy: there [00:32:40] is one tip that I learned at nios presentation when she talked about this at a prior conference that, um, I'm going to make sure we put in the show notes 'cause it's gold. It is a great way to communicate boundaries proactively and professionally following all the guidelines she just shared.
Um, I'm gonna have question read her. Out of [00:33:00] office message template. Oh, okay. To us. All right. And again, I'm gonna put this in the show notes.
Questian: Okay.
Nancy: I am going to have question read nios out of office message template
Questian: dear client from start date to some end date. Hopefully it's a good length of time, right? I'll be taking some much [00:33:20] needed time off for urgent matters. Please contact some colleagues. I value our partnership and assure you that all tasks will be handled with the same dedication and efficiency.
Nancy: Period. Period. That's it. That's it. That's the whole thing. It does. We don't need to spend 26 hours thinking [00:33:40] through how we're going to, you know, make people be okay with the fact that we're. Leaving and we don't have
Nayo: to tell 'em where we're going. 'cause that's the other
Nancy: thing
Nayo: we always say, I'm going on a, we don't have to do that.
We don't need to. One of
Nancy: the things I sometimes will, um, put in my out of offices is that, um, for example, when I'm going to a conference, [00:34:00] that the, um, the tips and the tricks and the knowledge that I pick up at that conference helps me to service you the client better. Um, and I think that that's another, yeah, another one that can be really
Questian: helpful.
So another question for you, what are some small. Low stakes, ways that accountants and bookkeepers can start practicing boundary setting [00:34:20] today, even if they're conflict averse. I wonder why you're asking that point to myself. Question, question. I love
Nayo: a good email reminder or responder, so you can set your emails now to have a responder that says Thank you for so much for your email.
We will get back to you [00:34:40] within 48. Business hours. So that way it takes a little pressure off of you to respond immediately because some kind of way we got into this mode thinking that we get an email, I gotta respond all day. And you spend all day in your inbox. And yes, I am guilty of this. I'm working on a work in progress.
Um, another way is to either get a VA or a chat [00:35:00] box to start taking over some of that functionality for you too.
Uh, when I initially went through this process, I hired a company called Inbox Done. They will monitor your emails. Oh wow. Um, and they're specifically tailored to do just that. Wow.
Nancy: Yeah. So now I, um, come mind, I had a really great experience [00:35:20] with, um, again, it bridging the gap.
We mentioned them in every single episode because I've just learned so much, uh, from that conference. It's so true. I did you go last year? There was a, there was one on, um. It was co-presented by a woman who runs her own company and her ea and they co-presented what you can do to have an, you [00:35:40] know, to either, um, transition your admin into being an executive administrator or to hire your first EA or whatever.
And we, oh my gosh. I, I, I texted my admin from there and was just like, oh my God, we got so much exciting stuff to do. And it's been a really wonderful experience. And one of the things I, I don't like having my [00:36:00] email. Monitored on a regular basis. 'cause I actually, um, most of what comes into my inbox because of the way we've set up Keeper, uh, who is one of our sponsors, and I'm giving them a very genuine shout out here because this has made a big difference.
There's a lot less email in my inbox because my team is taking care of it in keeper and they're talking with the clients and I'm not [00:36:20] getting CC'd on everything. So my email inbox is a lot more manageable than it used to be. However, one of the things is that when I am. Um, going through a tough time like recently when, you know, I was at my mother's cleaning out her apartment, uh, or when I'm here at a conference or whatever, I'll say, Hey, can you monitor my email inbox for anything that looks like it [00:36:40] might be time sensitive?
And then she will text me and that gives me this freedom. To ignore, relax, ignore. Ignore the email.
Questian: Because if you get in there and you look at it, oh, and there's something that you feel like needs action, then you're in. You're like in. You're stuck. You're stuck. Yes. Yeah. We
Nayo: use a email inbox called missive [00:37:00] and we break emails down into different teams.
Can you spell that? MISS. IVE. Oh,
Nancy: like you're sending a little missive to someone. My grandma used to say that all the time. She
Nayo: did. She's from
Nancy: Texas Hill
Nayo: Country. She had very interesting language, but there are some automations built into there. So it's like if the email contains these [00:37:20] words or if it's from this person, I can just automatically funnel it to a different box and that team can monitor it.
That is fantastic. Yeah. So like Receipt. Are one of those things we get in the email. I don't necessarily need to look at it until we do a bookkeeping, so I have 'em funneled to a Receipt folder. Right. So it's little tips like that that kind of take things off of your plate.
Nancy: And does [00:37:40] that connect with your CRM?
I know because you were talking about how carbon. Your carbon emails. And that is your CRM as well as your pm right? That's how
Questian: I use it, yeah. Okay. I mean, it's not a, a typical CRM, but you can keep track of all of your, um, clients and you can kind of use it that way. And then, so how do you handle
Nayo: that? So we use Monday.
Okay. Um, [00:38:00] we use the Mondays Monday dot coms CRM functionality. Okay. And we have every client in there. And there is a piece of it where we can monitor that particular client's, uh, email inbox. I mean, I'm sorry, not the inbox, but the emails from that client, right? That client to and from the client. So as long as the email is [00:38:20] the same as that client, it'll populate and we can kind of see.
So I do love using the CRM to kind of see the touch points we've had with a client. So that's another way. To be proactive as to kind of reach out to the client before the client reaches out to you. Yeah. It's like, Hey, it's been a while. Maybe you should get something on the books. I haven't talked to you in a few months or I,
Nancy: I'm sensing a theme [00:38:40] here.
So many of the things that we're talking about, we're talking about setting boundaries, but you are talking about being proactive and in being proactive, the boundary is set. Yeah. Yeah. That is fantastic. I, I guess I never, even though I, I. Was in one of these sessions once. I don't think I made that connection about [00:39:00] boundaries and proactive communication as being related to each other.
Nayo: But really, you know, our clients Think about your gym membership, right? You, you are.
Nancy: Oh yeah.
Nayo: That you pay. I have one of those too right now. Yeah. You, you are hyper-focused on the January 1st by like end of February you're just paying for didn't even [00:39:20] it. Right? And the only time you've really. Or like, oh, this gym membership is, is when that annual fee comes out.
Mm-hmm. Because it's not the monthly membership fee. Mm-hmm. It's that one time annual fee. Mm-hmm. You're like, dang. Yeah. And that's when you reach out. So if we get to. Contacting them before the [00:39:40] annual fee. Like imagine your gym manager saying, Hey, just, just a reminder, your annual fee's coming out. We just wanna make sure you are happy with your contract, and we would love to get you in for a personal training session.
Then that annual fee won't seem so negative. Right? Yes, you're absolutely right. That's
Nancy: fantastic. Yeah. I'm gonna pause
we're especially [00:40:00] thankful to our lead sponsor forwardly. Not only have they been incredibly supportive. But here at Scaling New Heights, they actually hosted a, she counts of meet and greet at their booth.
It was amazing. There were so many women who came out to support us. Not just women, but men too. Yes. We got a big group picture. It was [00:40:20] absolutely wonderful. And one of the things that we got to do while we were there was to ask women, what are topics that you think other women in accounting need to hear about?
Because that is what question and I wanna present. That's right. Nile, I would love to hear your answer to that question One.
Nayo: One thing that's kind of been surfacing for [00:40:40] me here lately is really thinking about that emergency response plan. Like if something happened to me, what I. What do I need to do for the firm, either to continue or so the clients will be served.
Nancy: Now, you and I were both in that session with Jennifer Diamonds today. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I Some of the stories that people [00:41:00] shared. Yeah. One of the stories that you shared.
Nayo: Yeah. You know, you, you. I had a hysterectomy a year and a half ago, so I'm sure that's gonna come up as a topic too. Oh yeah, it is. How to deal with women issues when you're, yeah.
Going through your midlife crisis, menopause, perimenopause. Yes. All the same. All the same. Can I share the story?
Questian: [00:41:20] Yeah. So yeah, as we were sitting down, getting set up. For everything Nancy said, I am just so hot. I need, I need a fan. And NIO said, I got you girl. Here's your fan. And then we said, okay, we're gonna have to put that away before we start filming.
And I was like, no, actually we shouldn't. Like this is, [00:41:40] uh, this is part of why we're doing this. And, and you know, we're women who are getting older and we have hormonal shifts and it impacts. So many pieces of our lives, even when you aren't in perimenopause or menopausal hormones, do as well. Yeah, so. Yeah, we're we definitely, and then we couldn't
Nancy: because it turned out it interfered with the sound, so we decided against it,
Nayo: but we [00:42:00] were ready for it.
But dang, these mics need to understand, have a built in functionality to say, take out the sound of the.
Nancy: Nyo, where can we learn more about you and
Nayo: your work? You can follow me in all the socials, nio, parer Gray, and that's [00:42:20] N-A-Y-O-C-A-R-T-E-R-G-R-A-Y-A-Y.
Nancy: Not like Earl Gray, the T, that's why I try to remember.
She is not t. She's pull string. It'll be in the show notes as well. Hey, yes, it'll be in the show notes. We will, um, make sure to include those links. Also, would you tell us where you're gonna be speaking this [00:42:40] year? I
Nayo: will be at Bridging the Gap next. Um, I am attending NA a's Tax Summit, so I'll be a, just sitting in the audience.
So if you're there. Come say hi. We can learn together. And I am also speaking at Intuit Connect. Can you
Questian: also tell us, you're on the board of a nonprofit organization. Can you please share about that organization? I'm a few boys [00:43:00] now, but I, I am on the board. I think you know which one I'm talking about. The County
Nayo: Cornerstone Foundation.
Uh, it is a 5 0 1 C3 organization. We do accept donations and what this wonderful organization does is. Send people to their first accounting conference. So if you've never attended accounting event such as Scaling New Heights, [00:43:20] um, then you can apply to, uh, be one of our recipients. And if you have, and you love the community that we're building here, please feel free to make a donation.
It is a tax
Nancy: deductible and I am very excited to say that uh, one of our ask a CPA members received an a CF scholarship [00:43:40] to attend scaling New Heights, and she. Gave the ticket that she had bought to Scaling New Heights. She gave it to another one of the ASCA CPA members. And then we have two ASCA CPA members who got a CF scholarships to go to Bridging the Gap, and we're so grateful.
Thank you so much. Yeah, that was wonderful. That's amazing.
Nayo: I love it. Love it. Love it. [00:44:00]
Questian: Um, so.
I wanna also give a, uh, a shout out to Hope Brown, who is sitting here with us. Oh, that you guys can't see her. You can't see her. Our security, security
Nancy: guard, hope Brown has been the most amazing. Friend to us at this conference.
Yeah. She led a tax tour with me, uh, in the [00:44:20] expo hall for Woodard, uh, plus members. She has been guarding us as people have walked by. She's been taking picture. We're so popular. You know, everybody wanna say hi. They're like, oh, they look like they're doing something fun over there. I should come visit. And the hope's been our, our bodyguard.
We really [00:44:40] appreciate that. So thank you, hope.
Questian: So we just thanked Hope and we also really need to thank Insightful Accountant for allowing us to use their booth to do our recording. As you can see here. And they're such a huge part of the conference. It's amazing, um, the work that they do. And they also have award ceremony recognizing, um, [00:45:00] bookkeepers and accountants for top ProAdvisor with Top Question was
Nancy: the top up and coming ProAdvisor for the year.
Uh, I was. Top, uh, client Accounting Services ProAdvisor last year. I'm on the advisory board. We love the resources that they put out, all of the, the webinars. And, um, you'll be speaking, I believe at Future Forward [00:45:20] this year, right? I'll, yes.
Questian: And I don't remember what my title is right now, so, sorry. We'll come back to that.
We'll put it in the show notes. I'll put it in the show. We'll put it in the shadow. That's right. So we'd also like to ask the listeners of the podcast. To follow us on our She Counts LinkedIn page, and join in on the conversation by sharing your thoughts on the episode. And also please give us some topic [00:45:40] ideas.
Um, we wanna know as well what major wins or fails have you had when trying to set boundaries, um, as well.
Nancy: So, and before we sign off, I want to leave you with a quote. As you know, we always love to end with a quote by Elaine Welter Roth. Now she's. A journalist and she was [00:46:00] previously editor in chief of Teen Vogue.
In case you're wondering who the heck this person is, I love this quote. Don't let anyone make you feel like setting boundaries is a bad thing. You are not difficult. You are not selfish, you are not too much. You are protecting your peace.
Questian: [00:46:20] Clock
Nancy: that
Questian: tea,
and if you're too much. Somebody else. Somebody can go get less, go get less, go get less, go get less. That's right. So. Thank you so much, Naya. We have loved having you here. Thank you. We're so happy. I love you both. We love you so much. Yes. And thanks to our [00:46:40] listeners for joining us on She Counts the Real Talk POS podcast for women in accounting.
Nancy: If something in today's episode hit home for you, well good, because that's exactly why we're doing this
Questian: so that you feel seen, heard, and never alone.
Nancy: Remember that you can get CPE credit for listening at Earmark dot ap. Links to that and any other [00:47:00] resource will be in the show
Questian: notes. And please subscribe.
And also please leave us a review. Hopefully a good one because it, because it helps other people really find our podcast and share this with another woman in accounting who you think would enjoy it and needs to hear it.
Nancy: Many thanks again. You are amazing Guest, [00:47:20] NIO Carter Gray, we're glad you could join us today.
Thank you my friend, and we'll see everyone in two weeks. Thank you.
